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Messages - Luce

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Isle of Man / Re: Ann Jane Rivers née Kinread
« on: Friday 20 October 17 21:13 BST (UK)  »
Hi Daisy & Blue

Thanks so much for your help.

I'm awaiting the certificate for the Rivers / Stretch Marriage.

I'm glad you also think that Ann & Elizabeth Radcliffe are the same person, its nice to have other people agree with you!




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Isle of Man / Ann Jane Rivers née Kinread
« on: Monday 16 October 17 22:38 BST (UK)  »
My great great grandmother, Annie Radcliffe Rivers was born 20th September 1869 to Thomas Rivers and Ann Jane Kinread (birth certificate).She was baptised on 31st October in New Brighton, Cheshire.

Annie Radcliffe Rivers, aged 18 months old is found in the 1871 Census in  17 Lime Street, Liverpool, Lancashire, with her Mother (ref RG10/3787/112 p 6). Her mother, Ann Jane Rivers, is from the Isle of Man and has given her age as 30, so born in about 1841.
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1881 Census (ref RG11/3624/100 p29) Annie Radcliffe Rivers is aged 11 and a boarder in Mount Pleasant, Liverpool. I think her mother is the one above her, also a boarder. However, this person is down as “Ann Jane Slatch”. She is from the Isle of Man and a widow, but this time born in 1831. I haven’t found any Rivers/Kinread/Slatch marriages nor can I think of any names Slatch could be mistaken for, to confirm if it is her.

I've found a potential marriage for Ann Kinread and Thomas Rivers in 1859. Thomas’ age is given as 24 (so born about 1835) and Ann Kinread’s age is given as 28 (so born about 1831). Ann’s father is Charles Kinread, a Blacksmith.

Assuming this is correct, I've found a potential baptism of  Ann Jane Kinread on 28th August 1831 with parents Charles Kinread and Ann Radcliffe, in Ramsey, Isle of Man. I think this is fairly likely due to the age given on the Marriage Certificate and the fact that her daughter is given the middle name “Radcliffe”. There is no occupation given for the father in the  transcription that I have seen to help confirm it.

However, on the research papers on the Isle of Man family history society seem to suggest differently. Section 4.20.2 on http://www.iomfhs.im/resources/lawsons/v3/kinrade-maughold.pdf suggest that the Ann Kinread baptised on 28th August in Ramsey married James Fargher in 1853. It also suggests that her Mother was Elizabeth rather than Ann.

Using the GRO Birth index, I can only find one sibling for Annie Radcliffe Rivers, a brother, Thomas Henry Rivers. He was born 6th july 1861 in Liverpool and his parents are given as Ann Jane Kinread and Thomas Rivers (Birth Certificate). He appears to have been baptised in Andreas, Isle of Man. He was born in Liverpool and his parents are given as Annie Kinrade and Thomas Rivers. He potentially appears on the 1871 Census in Andreas, Isle of Man, living with his Grandmother, Elizabeth Kinrade, and her brother, Charles Radcliffe. Thomas Henry Rivers on the census was born in Liverpool and is aged 9 in 1871 (RG10/5772/157 p 14).this has been Mistranscribed as Rivey or Riverts.  This same Thomas Henry Rivers appears to have died in 1876, aged 15, in Andreas, Isle of Man.

The research papers on the Isle of Man Family History Society mention Thomas Henry Rivers. Section 14.8.6 on http://www.iomfhs.im/resources/lawsons/v1/radcliffe.pdf focuses on Elizabeth Kinread. It mentions he living with her grandson, Thomas Rivers of Liverpool but in the earlier section ( Section 4.20.2 on http://www.iomfhs.im/resources/lawsons/v3/kinrade-maughold.pdf ) None of her children marry anyone with the name Rivers.

Do you think I have the correct parents of Ann Jane Kinread?

Are Elizabeth Radcliffe and Ann Radcliffe the same person?

Anything you can add or any opinions on what I've found so far would be helpful.


Thank you

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Cumberland / Re: James Reney
« on: Thursday 12 October 17 22:43 BST (UK)  »
Hi Elizabethanne

I'm descended from James' sister Isobel / Isabella Reney. She married a John Smith but luckily Reney as a middle name was used fairly often so it made them quite easy to track. It was last used as a middle name by my great uncle, 4 generations later!


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