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Messages - Steeple1

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Thanks for yr interest. This came to me as a copy of a batch of Cullimore photos, most being of working class folk (colliers) which his descendants became. Henry is the only possible candidate as his father d. 1851, so obviously too early for this pic. Perhaps it is one of his wife's people, so cannot be  identified.

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Photo believed to be Henry Cullimore 1828 -1897. His father John was bn in GLS 1800 and died 1851 in MON. Can someone kindly confirm that from the clothing this photo is unlikely to be of John.   

Henry made a good match - into the Mansel Jones and Talbot (Port Talbot, Fox-Talbot) families.

Assuming this is Henry's photo, he was at the height of his prosperity having started as a mineral agent (coal merchant), then colliery viewer (mining surveyor), and manager of the Ystradgynlais Iron and Steel Works - but family tradition is that drink was his downfall. He died as a coal mine surface worker, killed by a truck that 'ran wild' (slipped its chocks). Newspaper reports of the sale of his furniture etc seem to confirm his former status.

 The inquest is interesting in that one witness was untraceable, another couldn't recall anything.His father John was bn in GLS 1800 and died 1851 in MON. Can someone kindly confirm that from the clothing this photo is unlikely to be of John.   

Henry made a good match - into the Mansel Jones and Talbot (Port Talbot, Fox-Talbot) families.

Assuming this is Henry's photo, he was at the height of his prosperity having started as a mineral agent (coal merchant), then colliery viewer (mining surveyor), and manager of the Ystradgynlais Iron and Steel Works - but family tradition is that drink was his downfall. He died as a coal mine surface worker, killed by a truck that 'ran wild' (slipped its chocks). Newspaper reports of the sale of his furniture etc seem to confirm his former status.

 The inquest is interesting in that one witness was untraceable, another couldn't recall anything.

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Two people have submitted restorations? Thanks to both.

I want to put the restored image on my Ancestry Tree page. Is that OK?


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His father John was bn in GLS 1800 and died 1851 in MON. Can someone kindly confirm that from the clothing this photo is unlikely to be of John.   

Henry made a good match - into the Mansel Jones and Talbot (Port Talbot, Fox-Talbot) families.

Assuming this is Henry's photo, he was at the height of his prosperity having started as a mineral agent (coal merchant), then colliery viewer (mining surveyor), and manager of the Ystradgynlais Iron and Steel Works - but family tradition is that drink was his downfall. He died as a coal mine surface worker, killed by a truck that 'ran wild' (slipped its chocks). Newspaper reports of the sale of his furniture etc seem to confirm his former status.

 The inquest is interesting in that one witness was untraceable, another couldn't recall anything.

Thanks for your help and if the tear in the pic can be edited out, so much the better.

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The Common Room / Re: Names of people deleted from the censuses
« on: Wednesday 18 April 18 20:38 BST (UK)  »
Very disappointed at the general lack of engagement and discussion of specific problems that were  cited.
I cannot believe that the rote transcribers who only transcribe what they see would record servant Wilkinson Ada, with Ada as a surname. (This problem is overwhelmingly found amongst Boarders, Lodgers and Servants). If you accept that there are times when sensible editing is necessary, how do you cope with Servant Ann Mary or Margaret Joyce, many forenames also being surnames?

A couple of days ago in 1911 I came across a deleted son, against whose name was written Gone to Birmingham. He is nowhere to be found in Ancestry or FindMyPast transcripts. How would you feel if he was *your* target?

Many years ago when the PRO was in the beautiful old Chancery Lane buildings I was looking at books while waiting for a doc to be produced. In the preface to a printed index of Admons the editor had unforgettably described the then Keeper of the Public Records as 'a man who had done so much to keep the public from their records' and in a strange way I feel that that tradition is alive if exclusivity, rather than inclusivity of information is preferred.

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The Common Room / Re: Names of people deleted from the censuses
« on: Thursday 12 April 18 16:33 BST (UK)  »
Agreed, she is not a member of the household but how else would you direct someone not as diligent as you have been at finding such an item / person in a similar situation in a different household? It is up to the researcher to work out the scenario - but before that, they can only be found by first getting them indexed.
.

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The Common Room / Re: Names of people deleted from the censuses
« on: Tuesday 10 April 18 17:39 BST (UK)  »
Composite response.
I think this subject is more complex than you seem to find it.

'I am not altogether sure what you mean by "Some transcribers have included deleted names"'

In 1911 censuses there is a regular sprinkling of pages where eg. a whole family have been included but several names have been deleted, presumably dead or married and moved away or whatever. In some cases it may only be one person. As a serious researcher I'd be interested in every scrap of information.

1911 again, in Ancestry, occasionally a page is totally blank but the enumerator's slip gives a name and sometimes 'Gone away' or whatever. None of these names have been included. A monstrous omission.   

If the material is copyright, why are the public let loose onto it to make suggested corrections? What is the difference between a correction, and a request that a name has not been transcribed and needs adding?

Interesting that FindMyPast use the word 'reflect' on their corrections page:-
'We can only amend transcriptions where they fail to reflect what was actually written in the original record'.
I asked them what to do with a name, let's say it was Reed, where the second e had been neatly crossed through and letter i inserted over. How do you transcribe that exactly? In fact, the answer I got was such that the presumed Reid would not have appeared in its correct alphabetical place in the index.

In a family, where the wife's surname has been obscured / partly obscured by a blob, yet is clearly written in for the other members you seem to be Saying don't include it?

I don't remember the instructions for FreeCEN which are probably the same as those for FreeREG as it was so many years ago that I did work on GLS for them.

Here's another transcription poser. How do you deal with a name written in Cyrillic - which is somewhere in LND 1891 or 1901? And what about the several entries in Hebrew?

A search of names which include x or have letter x at the end are to be found wrongly transcribed by the use of sc - and in profusion. Look at Mascted, Riscon, Cosc etc. Many have the apparent s and c widely separated, so the transcriber is simply obeying the instructions and not using commonsense.

These sorts of probems abound. They are not just a few - there are many others - and they need sensible solutions so that targets can be found and not obscured by having been given rigid scholarly treatment. 

Maybe your Dodd is buried away somewhere because of a Jobsworth simply carrying out orders!

I would appreciate your observations on *all* of these matters.


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The Common Room / Names of people deleted from the censuses
« on: Tuesday 10 April 18 16:04 BST (UK)  »
Being old, I have a lot of it so I spend many hours trawling Ancestry and FindMyPast (+1939) looking for errors and submitting corrections. (Mainly only surnames)

Recently I tackled Ancestry. Some transcribers have included deleted names, others have not. Not only because of the value of occasional useful info sometimes noted, eg.  Now in service; or Dead, I think that they should all be transcribed. After all, some people may not get enumerated elsewhere due to oversight or death etc. 

I had two different views from Ancestry. One person said it was a great idea and would be passed upwards.
The other, that the material is subject to TNA copyright and cannot be interfered with. Nonsense IMHO.

Although accuracy is very important, I believe that transcripts need to veer more towards being helpful rather than being scholarly reproductions of what was written.

What do others think?

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