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Topics - Cnthree3

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1
Lancashire / no trace of two births 1920's
« on: Friday 05 April 24 12:00 BST (UK)  »
Hello fellow genealogists. Can you possibly help with my brick wall.

I am trying to locate a person / family in 1921 and then two births of children thereafter.

Rowena (Betty) Acton born 1892 Chorlton. Married Charles Heywood Oct 1912, widowed then married Walter Ernest Jones 1917. two boys of marriage Edward 1917 and Ernest 1920.

Not sure when or if they got divorced but rowena then entered a relationship with Johannes Mijnardus Coenen 1894 - 1956 and they had 5 children
Maurice Joseph Coenen - 1923
Kenneth Coenen - 1926
Eric T Coenen - 1929
Betty Coenen - 1933
Alan Coenen - 1937

I am not able to find Betty in the 1921 census, nor the two jones children.

In addition I can not find Maurice nor Kenneth birth records.

JM Coenen had two previous relationships, with Mary Jane Gay Nowell, who he abandoned with two small girls, and Florence L Kerr, who he never married but had two boys Joseph and Robert. Interestingly J M Coenen put the wrong mothers name on the birth certificates of Joe and Robert, being a mix of his still legal wife and the boys actual mother - Mary Florence Kerr.

Can you help find Betty and her first two boys births  and possibly a marriage for J M Coenen and Rowena (Betty)
Many thanks for your time. Gail

2
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / 1921 census - employment
« on: Saturday 23 March 24 17:11 GMT (UK)  »
hello - can someone help me confirm the employer and name of the picture house JM Coenen worked for in Manchester - this is a snip from the 1921 census.

many thanks for your time

3
Essex / Where did the Kerr Family disappear to?
« on: Friday 08 March 24 20:18 GMT (UK)  »
Hello - can anyone help me find out where the Kerr family went to between 1901 and c1920.

Robert John Kerr 1866 - 1939
Helena Warwick 1865-1934 (married 1888)
Children per 1901 census
Jessie Edith Mabel Kerr 1891 (she was a servant in 1911 and is the only one I can find a census record for)
Robert Charles Kerr 1893
Maud Vincent Kerr 1896 - 1944
Florence Lydia Kerr 1899 - 1977

note - these names and dates are right and verified in different ways - there is a similar family with similar childrens names that is not this family.

Father Robert John - after the 1901 record I can find nothing more for him except on sons wedding record - but then his occupation has changed from Farrier (taken from multiple records) to fireman.

Mother Helena, again nothing for her following the 1901 records.

Eldest daughter  - Jessie - she was working at the Granville Hotel Marylebone London, 1911 (note her birthplace is India.) She married in 1912 and I can find her in the 1939 register. One child Peggy.

Son - Robert Charles Kerr - I have some record o him living in Kent in 1913, But nothing in the 1911 census.

Daughter Maud Vincent  - nothing from the 1901 census to her marriage in 1924.

Daughter Florence Lydia Kerr (this is my direct relative that I am interested in) nothing from the 1901 census to the birth certificate of Johannes Coenen, her eldest son, born in Leicester. Note - her name is said to be Mary Florence Coenen formally Nowell, on the birth certificate - which I think is a mix of the father of Johannes actual wife at the time (Mary Jane Gay Nowell) and hers.

Did the family leave the country? Can you help me find them in the 1911 census? I am trying to piece how Florence got from Walthamstow in essex to Leicester and then to Manchester a few years later.

Many thanks for any help or suggestions Gail




4
World War One / J M Coenen - did he serve in the war?
« on: Tuesday 05 March 24 19:14 GMT (UK)  »
Hello

I am trying to establish whether an ancestor served in the first world war. I have been unable to find any records for him, but I am not very good at this!

Johannes Meinardus Coenen (Born Sasbagh as his father was illegitimate but always used grandfathers name Coenen which was formally changed in 1906 for him and his father) NOTE - his father has exactly the same as him.

JM Coenen - also known as Joseph Maurice coenen - feb 1894 - Dec 1956.
(He had a son, also Joseph, who died in the second world war.)

Johannes Mijnardus Coenen was born on 17 Feb 1894 in Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Netherlands as the only child of Johannes Meinardus Coenen (born Sasbach) and Wilhelmina Massee.  His birth name as registered in the Netherlands at birth was Johannes Mijnardus Sasbach (also spelt Sassbagh). He used the first names Joseph Maurice / Morris as he got older.

Johannes Mijnardus Coenen was educated at  Addison Gardens School, admitted on 27th August 1901 aged 7 - name Johann Coenen, so even though birth name Sasbach not yet officially changed, was using Coenen as his surname.  He was living in 40 Lena Gardens, Fulham, London, the address is shown on both school admission records. No parents names on school records.

In 1911 census he was  still living in 40 Lena Gardens, Shepherds Bush Road, Hammersmith.   Joseph was shown as a music student, and he went on to become preficent in the Cello.

On 7th March 1913, when he was 19, Joseph married Mary Jane Gay Nowell, daughter of George Henry Nowell and Mary Gay Partridge, in Quebec, Canada. Dates would suggest they 'had to' get married due to Mary being pregnant, so it is possible they emmigrated to Canada when they found out Mary was pregnant, got married, and then Violet was born 9th May 1913.  Joseph and Mary Coenen returned to London, England in Aug 1913 and their second child Nellie, was born in October 1916.

n 1917 Joseph Coenen was performing in picture houses in Aberdeen and other places, (evidenced through newspaper cuttings) and so was clearly travelling around with work.

However by late 1917, when Joseph was 23, he appears to have been in a relationship with Florence Lydia Kerr, daughter of Robert John Kerr and Helena Warwick, Because  Josephs' son, Joseph Coenen (1918 - 1942) was born 29th June 1918 .

newspaper articles suggest Joseph Coenen was living in Aberdeen from July 1917 to January 1918 and one refers to him playing with the 2nd Buitallion Gordon Highlanders, however there are no records to suggest he was a member of the 2nd Bitallion Gordon Highlanders, but it does beg the question whether or not he did any national service during the war - I can not find any records for him. He woudl certainy have been of conscription age, which started in 1916, when he was 22 years old.

Can anyone help me work out if he did any war service at all? Many thanks

Gail

5
Lancashire / Benjamin Kay 1825 - 2 marriages to same person
« on: Thursday 11 August 22 20:39 BST (UK)  »
Hello - can anyone help me understand this error I seem to have in my tree I am looking at the life of Benjamin Kay, born 1825 Pilkington, Lancashire. I can trace him in all census 1851 - 1881.
I found this marriage for him below
Name:   Benjamin Kay
Gender:   Male
Marriage Date:   11 May 1845
Marriage Place:   St. Michael, Ashton Under Lyne, Lancashire, England
Father:   James Kay
Spouse:   Mary Caroline Robinson
FHL Film Number:   1550974
Reference ID:   2:1R0KNNJ

Then I also found the following marriage
   Benjamin Kay
Registration Year   1848
Registration Quarter   Apr-May-Jun
Registration district   Oldham
Inferred County   Lancashire
Volume   20
Page   656
Records on Page   4
The banns for this show his wife as Mary Robinson (no middle name) and father James Kay (not all transcribed as RAY)

they appear to be the same people - but im going wrong clearly. I am trying to find the father of Benjamin Kay 1862 - 1917

many thanks for anything you can suggest

6
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Hoggarth Military record
« on: Saturday 12 June 21 20:17 BST (UK)  »
hi can you help decipher the word after GSW face for me please and then the word in brackets.

this is my G grandad and i see he got the DCM which is amazing! George Hoggarth 1879 - 1939 from Yorkshire.

thanks so much - it would be amazing to learn more

7
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Holbourn - help please
« on: Friday 11 June 21 18:00 BST (UK)  »
Hello

can anyone read the words under 'granny with love Meg' on the right for me, many thanks

8
Yorkshire (North Riding) / Metcalf/ Hardwick / Lamb marriages
« on: Saturday 31 October 20 03:08 GMT (UK)  »
hello all - any help appreciated on this matter please.

John William Hardwick (1863 - 1927) (father george Hardwick mother Elizabeth Ann Rodgers) marries Isabella Metcalf 1870 - ?? in 1889 (Yorkshire North RidingVolume9dPage638). Daughter Annie Elizabeths birth certificate confirms parentage. 1891 census shows them together, and Isabella's birth place as Loftus.

Marriage then found 30 March 1895 John William Hardwick and Isabella Hymer Lamb (Lynesack and Softly, Durham, England)
1901 census shows John and Isabella - (Johns occupation shown again as Slater, this along with age and birth place confirming is the same JW) (Isabella's birth place now shown as Durham - suggesting it is a different person) and a new child Hannah.

Annie Elizabeth is living with maternal grandparents on 1901 census date - again suggesting mother had died

Question
1. Can anyone find a death for Isabella Hardwick nee Metcalf. (between 1890  1895 probably)
2. do you agree this is the same John William Hardwick

many thanks for your time

9
Lancashire / Where did the Dyer/ Dwyer children go?
« on: Thursday 29 October 20 04:35 GMT (UK)  »
Hello

In 2015 and 2017 this forum was kind enough to help with ideas for finding the parents of Patrick Dyer / Dwyer b1855 Ireland d 1924 Manchester (Calico Printer) and Maria Colagan / Colgain b c1854 Roscommon Ireland, D (guess 1900)

They had at least 6 children that I know of, listed below. I have been unable to trace the family in 1891 and 1901 and wonder if you can help find them. Information i know is as follows, and thanks for your help.

1, Bridget 1872 - ? illegitimate daughter of Maria Colgain (spelling per birth record) born Stokestown, Ireland. Included in 1881 census with parents and siblings Alfred and Lilly A. Surname spelt Dwyer. Looks like Bridget has taken surname name of children of Maria. No other information can be found on her

2, Elizabeth Mary b1874 Scarborough d1949 Manchester. she is NOT on the 1881 census with the rest of the family despite being only 7 at the time which is odd. Linked to the family from the 1911 census when widow Patrick and youngest child Violet are living with, now married, Elizabeth Cohen and family. (birthplace included on 1901 census) No marriage found, and no 1881 or 1891 censes info

3, Alfred b1877 manchester. Apart from on the 1881 census mentioned above (1) no further info on him found. There is record of a Geo Dyer and Alf Dyre leaving Liverpool to Canada 4 Jun 1892, but i have not been able to tie in George Herbert Dyre 1875 to my family (i intend to get the birth certificate to see if he is connected)

4, Lilly Angus b1879. Shown on the 1881 census mentioned above (1) as born Liverpool. no trace of her on any 1891 census, then she is Married on the 1901 census to William Pool but birth place shown as Manchester and name now spelt Lily A not Lilly Angus

5, Albertina (my direct relative) B1884 d (guess) 1900 from the manchester alcohol poisoning per family stories. Can not find her on the 1891 or 1901 census's. She Marries Arthur Gibson 1903.

6 & 7, too girls names Violet Rose. 6, 1887 - 1889. 7, 1895 - 1945. again no trace of Violet on the 1901 census, but in 1911 living with father and older sister Elizabeths family.

any help as to the missing years much appreciated, thanks

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