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Messages - Lionel-W

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1
Lanarkshire / Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« on: Saturday 01 August 20 10:22 BST (UK)  »

Making some headway on R W Smith who we now know was Robert. His full name was Robert Watson Smith and by sheer co-incidence, died the year you were born...

A Glasgow boy it seems www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VQQ6-JL4

See also www.universitystory.gla.ac.uk/biography/?id=WH16428&type=P&o=&start=0&max=99197&l=s

Great - and now we've also got the names of his parents and that he was a chemical engineer from the University of Glasgow! Being "busy" myself, I've also found his brother "Alexander", born on 25.09.1867.

2
Lanarkshire / Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« on: Saturday 01 August 20 09:31 BST (UK)  »
The 1920 valuation roll on SP has John Scott listed as proprietor occupier of a house called Rathmore in Victoria Road, parish of Cadder, Lanarkshire.

... and Cadder (pronounced "Cawder", so I've found out) was where Robert Henry Brownlie Scott (b. 1877), [older brother of Charlotte Elizabeth Snell King Scott (b. 1878), my grandmother, Mary Pennycuik Whamond Scott (b. 1879), Thomas King Scott (b. 1881), Elizabeth King Scott (b. 1883), Mary A. M. Scott (b.& d. 1885), Catherine Maude Scott (b.1887), and Alice Scott (b. 1889)] died in 1945.

The grave of John Scott is on the list of the "Auld Aisle Cemetery & Burial Ground, Kirkintilloch", correctly dated 01.07.1932, although he died in Glasgow.

3
Lanarkshire / Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« on: Friday 31 July 20 12:54 BST (UK)  »
Hi Monica,

I think somewhere in here we have a mistake. You didn't tell me where you obtained the information to the marriage of Charlotte E. S. K. Scott and Robert W. Smith, so I can't yet check it, but I'm sure it's correct. What I'm not sure about, is the date of marriage in 1914. Charlotte was born in 1878 and at the time of her marriage, would have been 36 years of age. This is rather old, even now, to start having children, but she went on to have two daughters. As stated, I met "Betty" Smith and Nora Meadows in Johannesburg, South Africa, in 1968 and both were around 65 years of age. Not old and demented, but certainly not 53 years or younger, which they should have been, given that they were born later than 1915.   But they were certainly the daughters of Charlotte, as proved by the telegram to  my parents received in 1944 at my birth (Auntie Lottie with Betty and Nora, 54, Belmont Street, Glasgow).

In addition, while talking to them, they recounted that their grandfather's sister - (Mary Scott King,  born 1855), had married "a man" (presumably Alexander C. King, born 1867) who was 10 years younger than she. And he never even found out! (I suppose this says something for knitting your own nightdresses from scratchy woolly Cambusnethan sheep!) In any case, they were definitely Charlotte's daughters and I would suppose  that both were in their late 60s at the time . Is it possible therefore that the marriage took place in New York in 1904 and not in 1914?

According to the information I've collected, John Scott married Elizabeth Snell King, (b. 1852 in Dalziel) on  22.06.1875 and who died 16.05.1918 in Skelmorlie, Ayrshire, buried Kirkintilloch, East Dunbartonshire. As you've already suggested, she died before John Scott (d. 1932 in Glasgow at the house of his son-in-law Robert W. Smith). However, the obituary you sent me from the newspaper, states that he was "late of Rathmore, Lenzie" which is only five minutes from Kirkintilloch. Your other remark, on the death of Elizabeth King Scott at the age of 91, agrees with being the sister of my grandmother Mary and of Charlotte, who was born in 1883 and in 1944 was also living with the others in Glasgow.

As regards the obituary of John Scott in the Whishaw Press, I shall have to see if I can access this on My Heritage or Find My Past. But I've read the same text elsewhere, I think military, and there was no further information of any value. However the search functions of My Heriatge are absolutely catastrophic. Some months ago I put in a search for the obituary of a relative in the local newspaper "Sydney Morning Herald" in Sydney, Australia on September 9th 1950, publication date. I had already found it on an Australian newspaper website. My Heritage came up with 628,510 results, over 100,000 from no layter than 1922 in the USA and a further 40,000 in Pennsylvania, USA. I would then have had to gone through the remaining over almost 300,000 possibilities in Australian newspapers. Just makes me sick having to pay for something which doesn't work even when the information is there.

So now we are all up to date again - thanks for all the trouble you're going to!

Lionel

4
Lanarkshire / Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« on: Thursday 30 July 20 08:21 BST (UK)  »
...we now have the name of the son-in-law - R. W. Smith - which has always been missing.


These looks to be their wedding details:

Charlotte E S K Scott and Robert W Smith
Marriage License 27 Mar 1914 in Manhattan, New York City, New York, USA

Monica

You did it again, Monica - thanks! I wonder if they were just visiting or if the daughters Elizabeth and Nora were born there - I haven't even their dates of birth, but now I'll have a look in the USA.

Lionel

5
Lanarkshire / Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« on: Wednesday 29 July 20 10:14 BST (UK)  »
Green House (I'm guessing this is "The Green") is shown on this map.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/82893099

Hi Lodger,

Thanks! Looking at the map up close, one can see the long tree-lined drive leading to this enormous house. This goes with the wedding: "... and when the bridal pair and wedding party returned to the home of the bride's parents they were preceded up the drive by Highland pipers playing lively tunes. Subsequently, a reception was held at the Green, and was attended by many guests". Considering that they received "230 handsome presents" and a special train from Glasgow had been arranged, there must have been around 500 people, to inlude "the locals", present!

Lionel

6
Lanarkshire / Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« on: Wednesday 29 July 20 09:43 BST (UK)  »
From the Glasgow Herald, John Scott's death - https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=GGgVawPscysC&dat=19320704&printsec=frontpage&hl=en

Monica - Fantastic, thank you!

You've not only found out where and when he died, we now have the name of the son-in-law - R. W. Smith - which has always been missing.

This again ties up with the sisters "Betty Smith" and "Nora Meadows", 1968 in South Africa, daughters of my grandmother's sister "Charlotte Elizabeth Snell King Smith (Scott) (b. 1878)." who died 1966, buried Kirkintilloch, East Dunbartonshire, Scotland.

I presume "Nora Meadows (Smith)" died in S.A and "Betty" returned to Scotland, dying on 08.11.1974 and also buried in Kirkintilloch.

Lionel

7
Lanarkshire / Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« on: Wednesday 29 July 20 09:23 BST (UK)  »
Lionel, did you confirm that the death for Elizabeth that we found much earlier was the correct one?

Monica

Hi!

As stated last year, I went through everything anybody sent me and documented it on an Excel sheet. This included anything you found and has been continuously updated with censuses, marriages, births, baptisims etc. As regards the wife of John Scott I have the following:

John Scott: 1875 Married (22.06.1875) to Elizabeth Snell King (Scott), (b. 1852 in Dalziel (parents Thomas King / Charlotte Snell, married 08.09.1839) - died 16.05.1918 in Skelmorlie, Ayrshire, buried Kirkintilloch, East Dunbartonshire, Scotland - Sister: Mary Ann King (Whamond) married William Whamond in Dalziel, Lanarkshire in 1866.)


8
Lanarkshire / Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« on: Tuesday 28 July 20 14:13 BST (UK)  »
Thanks, Monica!

You beat me to it, I was just about to put this in having searched for the brickworks in Google!

It seems that John Scott must have been a parttime office in the local territorial army and the "VD" apparently stands for "Volunteer Officer’s Decoration". The "VC" I can't identify as nobody of this name is listed. So I'll just keep on looking.

By-the-way, does anybody know what happened to the house "The Green" in Wishaw where everybody lived and where my father was born? I can't find any other information than what "Lodger" gave me last year.

Lionel

9
Lanarkshire / Re: John Scott, born 1851 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire, Scotland.
« on: Tuesday 28 July 20 09:33 BST (UK)  »
Hi!

Thanks for the additional information, it seems strange that Greatgrandfather has just disappeared from Wishaw (eg. census 1911). Maybe he was just chasing my grandfather round the world after he found out he'd been cheating on this daughter!

One question I have though is that John Scott is reported as being a colonel with "V.D, V.C, J.P" after his name. I can't find "V.D." (in this context anyway!) and he doesn't appear in the list of Victoria Crosses. I presume that J.P. means Justice of the Peace, but there is no record I can find to confirm this. Hoping to find something out, I sent an email (with the wedding info.) to the four "politicians" responsible for Wishaw, but firstly nobody answered and two still haven't bothered to reply. I don't expect everybody to get excited to help me, but it is Wishaw history and hoping to get reelected they should have enough sense to just say: "Very interesting, good luck, but I'm sorry I can't help". However, one suggested contacting the "Motherwell Heritage Centre", which I still have to do.

One bit of luck I had was while searching for photos in the attic. When I was born my mother set up a "Diary of Lionel Winston Bell" (please no comment!) and at the front, there's a telegram pasted in with "Congratulations from all at 54, Belmont Street" and stamped "Glasgow". At the bottom, there is a scribbled note in ink stating "Auntie Lottie Smith, Betty and Nora & Auntie Ellie Scott & Auntie Maude Scott. This all fits in with the John Scott family and I actually met up with my father's "aunts" (Betty Smith and Nora Meadows - obviously cousins) who were living together in Johannesburg, S.A. in 1968. The deeper you get into this, the worse it becomes!

Lionel












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