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Messages - D R Spencer

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Cheshire Completed Lookup Requests / Re: 1841/1851/1861 Minshull Vernon
« on: Friday 28 January 11 23:12 GMT (UK)  »
Sorry for the delay in replying.  I don't have an ancestry membership, so I had to wait until I went to the LDS Family History Center to dig into this again.  I went this week and I tried to search again for the information that I had found that led me to believe that our Joseph and the 1797 Joseph of Warmingham were not the same, but I wasn't able to find whatever it was that I originally found when I first came across the trees on ancestry that have our Joseph as the son of Benjamin/Elizabeth.   I will continue to try to find whatever it was that triggered this, but I certainly have not found any information at that all that would prove that they are in fact the same.  Personally I don't believe they are and I will try to keep looking to try to find evidence.  It was a while ago and I just don't remember exactly where I found it.

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Cheshire Completed Lookup Requests / Re: 1841/1851/1861 Minshull Vernon
« on: Saturday 18 December 10 01:15 GMT (UK)  »
Cthomas,
I visited the Cheshire Family History research room at the Crewe library and did some research this past summer while visiting England.  With the help of the researchers there, we found Josephs death recorded in the parish register for St. Michael and All Angels.  He was buried 10 May 1840, which is exactly 9 months before young Joseph was born (10 Feb 1841), so Rebecca must have just gotten pregnant when he was killed.  There was a note in the parish register next to Josephs name that said "G.J.R.W.", which the researchers said most likely meant Great Junction Rail Works.
I recall seeing something on ancestry.com where somebody had claimed that they found the parents of Joseph (and it may have been the record you are referring to for Joseph of Warmingham), but I was able to disprove that particular claim in a matter of minutes.  As of now, I have no information on Josephs exact birth date, but he is listed as 46 years old when he died in May 1840, giving approximate birth between June 1793 and May 1794.  I also do not know of his burial location.  St. Peters Leighton cum Minshull Vernon wasn't established yet, nor was the town cemetery in Middlewich.  I haven't been able to find any resource to tell where earlier burials from St. Michael and All Angles would be prior to the cemetery in Middlewich opening.
I also do not know where Rebecca Preston-Dutton-Edmunds-Palin is buried.  She may be buried in the St. Peters churchyard, where William and Edward and their wives and other family members are buried, but at the time that I was there I had not yet known about Rebeccas third marriage to a Palin, so I wasn't looking for the burial of a Rebecca Palin.
Like you, I also searched for a death certificate for Joseph, and while in Crewe I went to the record office just up the street from the library.  The only Joseph that had a death recorded at that time was a 10 year old boy.  So it may be that his death wasn't officially recorded with the registrar.

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Cheshire Completed Lookup Requests / Re: 1841/1851/1861 Minshull Vernon
« on: Wednesday 01 September 10 20:01 BST (UK)  »
In case anybody comes across this while searching, this mystery has been solved.  If you are related, or have any question, feel free to contact me or post here.

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Cheshire Completed Lookup Requests / Re: 1841/1851/1861 Minshull Vernon
« on: Sunday 03 October 04 20:08 BST (UK)  »
I believe it's the correct Joseph Dutton.  A family bible indicated he was born 16 Feb 1840, and the certificate agrees with that.  What are the odds that there would be two Joseph Duttons born somewhere in Cheshire on the same day both having a father named Joseph?  The only difference between the bible and the certificate is that the bible indicated he was born in Winsford, Middlewich - I assumed the family lived near there when he was younger and he believed he was born in Winsford - or perhaps it was the nearest large town/city and it was his point of reference.

The CheshireBMD website, which they claim has complete records, only shows 2 Joseph Duttons born in 1840, both registered in the Nantwich district.  When I sent off to the Record Office for his certificate, I sent the reference numbers for both records, along with Josephs alleged birthdate and the fact that his fathers name was Joseph, and I asked for the appropriate record.  I also stated that if by some chance both Josephs had a father named Joseph, I would like to have copies of both records (and authorized payment as such) so that I could do more research to determine which was the correct Joseph.  They only sent me the one record, so I assume the other Joseph did not have a father named Joseph.

I don't actually have a copy of Joseph and Sarah's marriage record, the family bible indicated the date and place of the marriage, and somebody in North Riding went to the RO and looked it up for me many years ago (in response to something I posted in a local paper/bulletin).  According to what she wrote me, Joseph was a miner, which matches the 1881 census, and his father Joseph was a labourer, which matches the birth record.  There is a discrepency on the marriage record regarding Sarah, but I've moved past that and found some of Sarah's ancestry back to her grandparents on her fathers side.

Thank you once again for the information, and for taking the time to help me with this endeavour.

D R Spencer

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Cheshire Completed Lookup Requests / Re: 1841/1851/1861 Minshull Vernon
« on: Saturday 02 October 04 21:04 BST (UK)  »
Joseph Dutton (b. 16 Feb 1840 in Minshull Vernon) was the son of Joseph Dutton and Rebecca Preston, and the certificate only indicates that his father Joseph Dutton was a labourer.

Regarding the letter, unfortunately it was never kept.  My cousin regrets this as his daughter has been trying to dig up this genealogy for years, as have I.  I've had much more success than her, but we share all our info with each other.  I don't quite understand the whole situation, as it would seem with the father being a labourer, I  wouldn't imagine he would have some sort of estate for anybody to inherit or take over.  But this cousin of mine is still alive (age 76) and I have no reason to doubt the story.

I didn't ask for 1871 as I figured I'd need to start with 1841/51/61 and move forward.  I'm uncertain when Joseph Dutton (father) and his wife Rebecca passed away.  If they are the individuals who married in 1819, then they were probably born 1790s-1800 and are possibly not around in the 1881 census.  (1881 census has no Jos Duttons b. between 1795 and 1805, and only one Rebecca Dutton born 1803 but it's not her)  I figured if I could find them in 1841, etc. I'd have an idea of how old they are so I can skim death records for Cheshire for any possible matches.  Also uncertain of Rebeccas place of birth, as somebody indicated on the US census that Josephs father was born in England and mother born in Scotland.  But I've learned over the years to use census info as a starting point, but not to accept it as fact (people on both sides of the sea have always been a bit mistrusting of the government wanting to know their business, and census info is only as good as the memory/ knowledge of the person supplying the info to the census taker).

Joseph Dutton (the son) served in the 7th Regiment of Hussey from 20 Jul 1867 until 18 July 1868, enlisting in London and being discharged at Canterbury.  Sometime in the next couple of years he found himself in the North Riding of Yorkshire, where he married Sarah Bates on the 26th of August 1872.  I've found him and the other Bates families in 1881, and they began emmigrating to the USA shortly after, with Joseph & his family arriving in New York on the 3rd of May 1883.  I don't have access to the 1871 census for the North Riding but I'd bet they are all there. (The Bates family originated in Cambridge, moved through Lincolnshire, then settled in the North Riding before some of them came to the US)

It's interesting that you found a Jos Dutton age 11 living away from his parents.  What town/village was the farm where he was working?  Did you not see a Joseph Dutton with a wife Rebecca in 1851?  Perhaps they were both deceased already?

Thank you for your assistance.

D R Spencer

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Cheshire Completed Lookup Requests / 1841/1851/1861 Minshull Vernon
« on: Friday 01 October 04 20:21 BST (UK)  »
Greetings - I am a new member and this is my first post, so forgive me if I'm completely lost.

My G-G-Grandfather, Joseph Dutton, was born 16 Feb 1840 at Minshull Vernon (according to Cheshire Records Office - Nantwich Reg. District), and a family bible indicates that he was born in Winsford, Middlewich, so his family lived somewhere in that general area.

His parents were Joseph and Rebecca (Preston) Dutton.  If anybody has access to an index or census where you might find info on the family, I'd greatly appreciate any info on his parents (such as ages/est. years of birth).  IGI indicates that a Joseph Dutton and Rebecca Preston married in Middlewich on 12 Jul 1819, and this could be his parents, but finding the family in the census would tell me if his parents were old enough to have been married 21 years before his birth.  Info about siblings would also be appreciated.

I assumed with his name being the same as his fathers that he was a first son, but I suppose it's possible that an earlier son named Joseph died and they reused the name, or perhaps he only had older sisters, explaining why he may have been born 21 years after his parents married.

Joseph and his wife (Sarah Bates of Lincolnshire) married in Brotton Church (North Riding of Yorkshire) in 1872, and brought their family to the U.S. about 1883 (along with Sarah's mother Mary Stacey-Bates, Sarahs sister Isabella Bates-Jefferson & her family, and Sarahs brother Richard Bates and his family).

A cousin of mine here in the U.S. received a letter around 1935 or so stating that he was the next male in the line of decent, and asking if he'd like to return to England to be properly educated to take over the family manor (it was in the posession of three Ladies Dutton), but he wasn't interested.  That's the last contact we know of with our Dutton relatives in Cheshire.

Would be great to find some cousins from across the sea!

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