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Messages - Fraser178

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10
Scotland / Descent from Clan Fraser
« on: Wednesday 24 March 21 21:06 GMT (UK)  »
Hi there,

I'm currently working with a few distant relatives on a long term project where we're using a combination of Y-DNA results and genealogical records to piece together a DNA backed family tree of descent from Clan Fraser.
Currently there are a few members who claim descent from specific members of the Lovat branch, therefore we're looking for more people descended from one of the many branches of the Clan and then to use the Y-DNA results to either prove/disprove these theories. Then overtime be able to add all of these together to form quite a comprehensive tree.
The end goal would be for the Y-DNA results to be able to say that two individuals are roughly separated by X generations and this then being backed up by genealogical records to prove it, or even then being able to fill in a few gaps in the genealogical record using the Y-DNA

If you're paternally descended from Clan Fraser then please let me know if you're interesting in helping us out with the project. It would be advantageous if you know that you're descended from a specific branch/scion of the Lovat line such as;
  • Ardachy
  • Inverllochy
  • Reelig
  • Balnain
  • Erchitt
  • Strichen
  • Brea
  • Struy
  • Knockie
  • Moniack
  • Leadclune
  • Knock
  • Belladrum

There are other lines, but that's the few that came to mind! However even if you're not sure of your exact paternal Fraser origins then you're welcome as well of course.


Before anyone tells me, I'm aware of the 'Fraser and Septs' project on ftDNA but it's very American heavy and has surprisingly little male line Frasers on there. I'm also aware that not every one with the surname will be descended from the original 'Fraser' Norman settlers, due to the tendency of people taking up the surname when they moved to a new area/country. But that's the point of the project to determine the origins of the line and where they've all managed to end up.

Feel free to message me if you're interested! or even if you've already had your Y-DNA tested  :)


Thanks in advance,

Joel Fraser

11
Scotland / Re: Lost Scotsman and Bank loans
« on: Saturday 14 December 19 19:05 GMT (UK)  »
I would agree with Forfarian - Scottish burial records are possibly amongst the worst record set anywhere. Pre Civil registration in some areas the only records you may find are where the church has rented out a mortcloth (coffin covering) and they record the fee raised for this.

I see, that helps me gain more of an understanding that a burial probably wont be found then! Most of my family are English so I've not got too much experience with Scottish records.
His son ended up in Manchester but I've got no idea how so it is proving fun trying to track down my Scottish ancestors.

But it seems trying to track down Rodericks father is proving difficult as there seems to be an incredible amount of Alexander Frasers in the Inverness area at the time!

Thanks for all your help though people, I've got more of an idea of what could of happened in this situation.

12
Scotland / Re: Lost Scotsman and Bank loans
« on: Saturday 14 December 19 14:47 GMT (UK)  »
Interesting, so it appears that this Thomas Littlejohn was responsible for ensuring the debt was repaid.

As for the lack of burials, do you think its a case of incomplete burial records online?

13
Scotland / Re: Lost Scotsman and Bank loans
« on: Saturday 14 December 19 13:05 GMT (UK)  »
It is rather extraordinary I mean if you didn't know Alexander was one years old you'd probably believe he was an adult with that reference.

yeah that is true the parish marriages give us no real information sadly.

I do agree with your assessment that he was no normal labourer, I mean if he was cattle driver surely that would of been the occupation given?
So it looks like he either managed to sell them on some idea or he had family/friends who could act as insurance?

I have attached an image from the back of the dative, is a Cautioner the surety for loan?


14
Scotland / Re: Lost Scotsman and Bank loans
« on: Saturday 14 December 19 12:14 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks for the informative response with regards to the nature of datives. The will itself lists Alexander the defunct son as decerned executor but the defunct wife Margaret Haggart being given adminstrative rights (I mean Alexander was only one year old after all).

It's not the easiest to read then but it basically says she purposefully gives the money to the Bank of Stirling for Rodericks debt and then provides some small details such as the date of the loan and the name of the cashier who provided it.

As for the original records, Alexanders baptism simply provides parent names and baptism date (April 10th 1791) which is around 2 months before Roderick secured the loan (15th June 1791 as per the testament dative).

As for the parish registers for the marriage; Kincardine by doune we get 'Roderick Fraser ?? ???????? to Margaret Halket of this parish' I'm pretty sure it says 'St.Ninians' after Roderick but its too difficult to make out.

In St.Ninians we get 'Roderick Frazer St.Ninians to Margaret Halket Kincardine by Doune, married at Kincardine'

So we get no inference that Roderick is actually from St.Ninians just that he is resident there at time of marriage.

15
Scotland / Re: Lost Scotsman and Bank loans
« on: Saturday 14 December 19 10:45 GMT (UK)  »
No death record for Roderick even though there are records on SP for Stirling 1727-1854

I note the two marriage records you mention to MARGARET HALKET and the birth of their son ALEXANDER, mother HAGART.

There are three possible birth/baptism records on SP, the last one looks promising?
FRASER   RODERICK   DONALD FRASER/JANNET FRASER    09/05/1755   Kilmuir Easter
FRASER   RODERICK   CHARLES FRASER OR UIRACH JANET MC KENZIE   09/04/1769 Killearnan
FRASER   RODERICK   ALEXANDER FRASER/ANNE DAWSON   07/01/1765   Inverness

Colin

I think you're correct with either one with Alexander as the father as it's the only name connection to go from (off the sons name).
I have had a Y-DNA match with a Fraser who claims to be from the Lovat Fraser branch so for it to be up near Inverness would make sense.

16
Scotland / Re: Lost Scotsman and Bank loans
« on: Saturday 14 December 19 09:16 GMT (UK)  »
@ Fraser, assuming he was possibly engaged in the droving of cattle from the Highlands to Falkirk hence a debt to the bank. Roderick is popular Muir of Ord/Beauly area.

Skoosh.

Interesting, Fraser is also a common surname near Beauly I believe.
I should also mention he was married in Kincardine by Doune, Perthshire (his Wife's parish I believe) and the marriage is also in the parish books of St Ninians, Stirling so he may have been in residence there?
His son was born in Stirling in 1791, of course this doesn't rule out the Cattle Droving he may have just relocated.

17
Scotland / Lost Scotsman and Bank loans
« on: Friday 13 December 19 22:52 GMT (UK)  »
Hey everyone,

I recently discovered the will/dative of my relative Roderick Fraser who died in Stirling in 1792. He left behind the grand old sum of £3 to his 2 year old son, Alexander and his wife Margaret Haggart.
This however was took by the Bank of Stirling as Roderick owed them £50 to which he was loaned the year before (4.7.1791).

Now my first question, can anybody find a corresponding burial for him? I have been unable to find anything thus far. Maybe he wasn't actually buried in Stirling? the name Roderick also seems a nightmare for transcribers.

Second question, Roderick was simply listed as a Labourer. Now £50 is roughly equivalent to a years wages for a skilled labourer. Could anyone have got a loan in those days or would he have had to have had some form of collateral or insurance?

I'm unsure of his age at death, you will probably stumble across my ancestry family tree where I have put his birth as sometime in the 1760s but this is a guess and not confirmed from any burials.

Any input is appreciated!

18
Hi everyone,

Recently found a newspaper roll of honour with a picture of my great-great grandfather who was killed in France in 1915. The picture is quite clearly not the best, i mean I can make out his features but thats it really.

His army description gives him dark hair, dark eyes and pale skin.

Please take some liberties with this if you take it on, itd just be nice to see it with a bit more clarity (even if that is clarity with creative license taken)
I do have a very clear picture of his son, who does bare a strong resemblance to him so if you guys think that'll help then I can send.

Kind regards,

Joel

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