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Messages - seaweed

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28
The Common Room / Re: Does Anyone Know Anything About Boats?
« on: Wednesday 19 January 22 00:59 GMT (UK)  »
Hi peakoverload
 Seems there is a misleading google page out there. https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/The_Mercantile_navy_list_1848_4_issues_4/oecNAAAAQAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22mercantile+navy+list%22&pg=PA303&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q=%22mercantile%20navy%20list%22&f=false

I found her in the MNL from 1861 until 1870. in 1865 (owners were not recorded before 1865) she was registered to the owner William Foster. Who seems to be your ancestor.
https://www.crewlist.org.uk/data/viewimages?year=1864&name=ELEANORE&steamsail=Steam&year=1865+&submit=enter
She was sold to various owners after 1866 and I cannot find her after 1870 but it seems she was still sailing until 1872
( Addition) https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.35112203984325&view=1up&seq=812

 The Official number of the your ELEANOR is 6527. Her 1865 Crew Agreement and Logbook should be at NMM Greenwich. At least it should give you details of her employment together with details of her owner and crew.

You should be able to register  for the "AEON" system and get  downloadable details of the Crew Agreements and Logbooks. Don't forget to give the official number.

Her 1864 Crew Agreements are available from TNA Kew
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C2477532

Her sale to West Hartlepool would suggest to me that she was employed in the East Coast coal trade, but ????
(Addition) She was a Schooner, not a Thames Sailing Barge.


regards
SW

29
Durham / Re: Help with brickwall - great grandparents Samuel and Margaret Newsome
« on: Monday 17 January 22 17:35 GMT (UK)  »
Hello and welcome to rootschat.

You wrote
Grandfather Walter Newsome
b1892 Westoe Durham England
d1947 Newcastle NSW Australia
In the merchant navy  moved to Australia and changed name to Walter Temple

If my memory serves me, Westoe is a district within South Shields. If that is the case, I found the following. There was a W Newsome, serving on board the South Shields registered vessel COMET Official Number 136771 for the duration of 1915. There are two half yearly Crew Agreements.
 His Age is given as 23 and 24 respectively. Birthplace South Shields. Rank, Steward.

Unfortunately The Crew Agreements cannot be viewed on line. You would need to go to TNA Kew to view the originals or get someone to look for you.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14589951

The Crew Agreements should contain personal details, such as last address, NOK, etc.
Which should allow you to determine wether it is your man or not.

I would also take a look in the Merchant seamans records on FindMyPast to see if he had any post WW1 MN service.

SW


30
The Common Room / Re: Merchant Seaman’s record
« on: Friday 07 January 22 14:41 GMT (UK)  »
Just reviving this thread in the hope of some advice, particularly from @seaweed.

I did order copies of the seaman's pouch I was after but was a little disappointed in the records I got back from TNA. I'd hoped to get a list of ships he'd worked on but there was only one ship noted on his DIS.A card when he was discharged in 1952.

If I wanted to find which ships he's sailed on, would that mean I need to visit Kew itself?

Thanks

Hi,
Seamans Pouch's can be hit and miss. Some contain chapter and verse including a MN ID card complete with mugshot photograph. Others very little. They never contain lists of ships served on except in certain situations where a person had previous service prior to 1941. May I ask the cost to copy the "Pouch"

What you need is his Form CRS10. This will tell you the ships he sailed on, (from early 1941) Together with dates and places of engagement and discharge.
 These records are stored alphabetically, in blocks of sixty names. At one time you would just order the entire book and look up the person you are interested in. (Imagine searching for a "Smith" etc) Since Form CRS10 may contain a National  Insurance number. It was deemed by TNA that this could be used for fraudulent activities. So you now have to fill in another form and hope that TNA staff hit on the correct person when they do a search. They delete the NI number.
The series which records Forms CRS 10, BT382. is divided into 8 sub sections
For example. My guess is your subject would be of European origin.  There are two sets of records for this category. If he/she is not in one he/she may be in the other. Another sub series concerns seamen who were POW and yet another records MN seamen who served on RN ships and yet another concerns Deaths at Sea for pension purposes.
As you can see it can be complicated. That is why it's best to visit Kew yourself. You can also look at other information such as ships Logbooks and Crew Agreements to give you a more rounded picture.
 I understand that for Physical reasons, mobility, distance to travel etc. some rootschatters may find it difficult to attend in person.  You have to consider the cost of travel versus cost of research by TNA or a "Professional" researcher. I have given up on the TNA costs and a professional researcher will cost around £50 plus per hour.
In pre Covid days I would attend TNA regularly and would have done a look up for you, but now?
If you can give us your mans full name, date and place of birth. Then Hugh or myself will give you a reference/s where his CRS10 may be stored. Contact by Personal Message if sensitive.

cheers SW

31
Hi
CULLODEN official number 25990 built Quebec 1852, was owned by Bannerman and Massey from 1861 when she was purchased from Adam and co. Greenock. She was lost in collision in the mouth of the Mersey on the 1st November 1865 with the Dublin registered vessel ROVER (Captain Doyle) I suspect the vessel with O/N 42921 but further research would be required.
I can find next to nothing about Bannerman and Massey. Suggest you contact Liverpool Maritime Museum.
May I ask your interest in this company. Are you looking for an individual who worked/sailed for them?

SW

PS The 1848 edition of the Mercantile Navy List you found. Further investigation revealed it was the 1865 edition.

32
Lincolnshire / Re: Atkin Mariners
« on: Thursday 30 December 21 19:58 GMT (UK)  »
Just a little off the general course.
The 1881 Crew Agreements of the vessel JOHN registered in Lynn (Kings Lynn), official number 28284 gives her Master as James Atkin and her mate as Charles Atkin.
https://mha.mun.ca/mha/1881/viewcrew1881.php?Record_ID=50169&pagev=1
The two half yearly Crew Agreements of  ship 28284 for1891 give her master as James C Atkin.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_aq=28284&_cr=BT%2099%2F1681%2F19%7Cbt99%2F1681%2F20&_dss=range&_ro=any&_st=adv
They seem to be two different men according to given age. Father and Son? Was one lying about his age? is it a mistake in the TNA catalogue? or just laziness when writting the 1881 crew agreements.
I can find no maritime connection (up to yet) for Thomas or Samuel.

regards SW.

33
World War One / Re: crew list for H.M.Destroyer "Alarm " 1918
« on: Wednesday 29 December 21 17:36 GMT (UK)  »
HM Ships did not keep Crew Lists for the period concerned. Her 1918 Logs are at TNA Kew.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_srt=3&_ep=alarm&_cr=adm+53&_dss=range&_sd=1918&_ed=1918&_ro=any&_st=adv
Logs are primarily navigation records but may mention individual seamen. Ideally, you would need to visit to view.

34
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Tracing a ship's voyages
« on: Tuesday 21 December 21 18:02 GMT (UK)  »
You wrote
"He was employed as a Fireman, which I believe means he was what we now refer to as a Stoker, on a wage of £4.10.0d per month. As he was away for more than 5 months I am puzzled about his final wage - £12.9.6d"
It could be down to several cause's but the most likely is he drew a "Sub" to be used for a run/s ashore. He purchased essential items of clothing and other gear from the ships store. He made an allotment to be paid to a person/s onshore usually a family member, wife, mother etc.
It is always "Fireman" in MN parlance. Stoker was a RN rank.

35
The Common Room / Re: Loss of the SS Wellesley 1893-4
« on: Wednesday 15 December 21 13:49 GMT (UK)  »
Lloyd's List says WELLESLEY was lost on 16/Feb/1894. Early reports say No losses. Later reports suggest one crewman lost. It would appear that there were severe storms that night.
Take a look at the Deaths at Sea Register at FindMyPast. If nothing there.
Suggest you obtain the last Crew Agreement of WELLESLEY  official number 52757.
Obtainable from
https://mha.mun.ca/mha/holdings/viewcombinedcrews.php?Official_No=52757
Cost around £25.

36
Hampshire & Isle of Wight / Re: Ship disaster near Bournemouth 3rd December 1909
« on: Monday 13 December 21 12:33 GMT (UK)  »
THISTLEMOR. Foundered off Clovelly, North Devon  3/Dec/1909.
Lloyds List of 11/Dec/1909 gives the names of the crew who were lost and saved. None of the names seems to come close to the name we are looking for.
 THE THISTLEMOR DISASTER. NAMES OF THE CREW. Following is an official list of the names and addresses of the crew of the Sunderland steamer Thistlemor, wrecked on the North Devon coast : DROWNED. Captain J. W. Anderson (41), North Shields. Chief Officer T. Foster (33), Ilford. Second Officer T. Ireland (34), St. Helens. Carpenter Carl Kjellin (38), Liverpool. A.B. C. Foreland (31), Liverpool. A.B. J. Ayrton (31). Lancaster. A.B. H. Howard (20), Wexford. A.B. J. Lee (22). Burscough. Second Engineer A. R. Foster (23), Sunderland. Third Engineer Arthur Carr (23), Sunderland. Fourth Engineer Philip Nicholson (31), West Boldon. Donkeyman Jas. Kelly (46), Manchester. Fireman G. Woodburn (35). Liverpool. Fireman J. Bruetting (26), Liverpool. Fireman W. Varty (35). Hull. Fireman San Martin (33). Liverpool. Steward Jos. L. De Lean (37), Sunderland. Assistant steward W. Johnson (24), Liverpool. Ship's cook J. Fuzzan (52). Guernsey. Apprentice Geo. W. Smith (19), London. SAVED. Chief Engineer J. T. Stephenson (54), W, Hartlepool. A.B. G. Clarke (19), Liverpool. A.B. Stelian Rassam (22), Roumania. A.B. C. Busher (24), Liverpool. Fireman T. Brough (30), Liverpool. Fireman C. Turner (32), Liverpool. Fireman Walter Croker (25). Liverpool. Fireman Edwin Brett (25), Liverpool. Apprentice Andrew Minto (18), Newcastle.
The only casualty I can find which is anywhere off Bornemouth on 3/Dec/1909 is the steamer
EASTFIELD which foundered off Beachy Head. It appears that none of her crew was lost. She was refloated and sailed until 1917. She was lost to the German submarine UB57. I doubt this is the ship we seek.

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