Look up/Help Please Worth Parish-Valance

[paulr]

Hello

I was wondering if anyone could shed any light on the following from the Parish registers. (Micro fiche at Crawley Library)

Worth   516/1/2/1   Baptism   1813 – 1837 Fiche 2+

1824 Baptized 14 mar no 647 Sarah(?) Joseph & Ann Valance abode Worth Father Labourer page 81.

and

Worth   516/1/2/1   Baptism   1813 – 1837 Fiche 3+

1825 Baptized 12 Jun Sarah Valance – Joseph & Ann – Abode Worth – Father labourer – No 749

I wondered if anyone could confirm that there are indeed 2 entries and that they read as above.

I am trying also to determin if there were 2 Joseph & Ann Valance (Diff spellings also Vallance) in the Worth area around the same time or if I have made a mistake when copying the entries down.

It would seem strange that there are 2 entries for the same person on different dates?

Additional Info:

I have also found on LDS and in the Parish reg's, several children attributed to a Joseph & Ann Vallance/Valence born in Burstow (LDS) and in Worth (LDS & Parish).  Again was wondering if the parents were one of the same.

I have found a marriage as follows

Place: Lindfield, West Sussex,  Date:  3 Apr 1809:
Subject: Joseph VALLENCE
Spouse: Ann REED, botp  (B)VALLANCE
 
There is also an entry by an unknown source on LDS as follows

Husband - Joseph Vallance
Born about 1800  Worth
Marriage in  About 1822 to Wife  Ann
Ann born 1802 Worth, Sussex, England

Child- Martin Vallance Christened 14 MAR 1824  Worth.

If the LDS contributed entry is correct then it cannot be the couple in the Vallance/Reed marriage.

Many thanks

Paul

[suey]

Hi Paul, is it possible that the first Sarah died?  It was quite common for families to use the same christian name for a subsequent child.

As to the marriage the Sussex Marriage Index only has two entries for Vallance. 
LDS submitted records can be inaccurate and as the one you found has 'about' for year of birth and the marriage date i'd say someone was a taking a guess!

Joseph Vallance to Ann Reed - 3rd April 1809 Lindfield

and this one, too early

Joseph Vallance widw to Susanna Coleman wid, botp (B)
at Newick on 7th April 1755
witnesses - Edmd Denman, George Ellis

Suey

[forester]

Hello Paul,

Long time, no hear.

This may or may not be of use, I'm at work at the moment and can't check it thoroughly.

The ESRO has added a lot of Poor Law records this month. I found several Gatton entries for myself and there are several Vallance entries for Worth on there.

Just go to the A2A search page and enter Vallance, East Sussex Record Office and additions since December 2005, in the appropriate boxes and delve away.

If you've got the time, its worth opening the full catalogue as I've found that where the names are secondary, they don't always come up on the search.

Good luck and Happy Christmas,
Phil

[paulr]

Thanks you Suey

Yes the Ann Reed marriage is the only one I have found that might fit.

Its just there are quite a few children attributed to a Joseph and Ann Vallance (Valence etc) some are in Burstow some Worth. It could of course be the same family, just something looks odd in the way the kids are spread out.

Hello Phil

Yes I am also still looking for the Definitive William Terry Sr (Born 1818-1821) probably East Grinsted!

Thanks I will look on A2A

Have a great Xmas and new year and to you Suey and all on Rootschat!

Cheers

Paul 

[forester]

Thanks Paul. You as well.

Phil

[paulr]

Thanks Phil yes one entry was the Vallances in question. 

I am not sure what it all means but assume they paid them to go back to where they had come from? (So as not to be a burden on Worth Parish?)

Here is the family/Families bellow

There is a Witness at the wedding of below named Joseph Valance and a CollinsVallance (Not sure if this is mistake?) and also a Mary Harber married an Abraham Collins!

Place: Worth, West Sussex,  Date: 31 Jul 1806:Subject: Edward VALANCE, bach
Spouse: Sarah HARBER, sp botp  (B)
Extra Information: Witness wit: Jos. VALANCE; My. COLLINSVALLANCE

Here is the Vallence/Reed marriage

Subject: Joseph VALLENCE Place: Lindfield, West Sussex,  Date:  3 Apr 1809:
Spouse: Ann REED, botp  (B)VALLANCE

Here we come to the Joseph and Ann Children

MARY VALLANCE   Christening:  04 FEB 1816   Burstow, Surrey, England

Here is the entry from A2A/Poor Law what were they doing in Worth?

This does prove a connection with Worth and [proves they were the Burstow Vallances, which is good. Also I did not know of a Stephen.

~~~~~~~~--
ILE - Worth: Removal order: Joseph VALLANCE - ref.  PLDB7/16084  - date: 15 Jul 1817
   [from Scope and Content] Subject: Joseph VALLANCE; married: Ann VALLANCE; Burstow, Surrey. On appeal, the family to be returned to Burstow, who are to pay 40s 0d and ?2. 10s. 0d maintenance costs.
   [from Scope and Content] Child: Mary VALLANCE, 1y 4m
   [from Scope and Content] Child: Stephen VALLANCE, 7y
~~~~~~~~------

another child born Burstow after they came back from Worth?
   
JAMES VALLANCE   Christening:  26 SEP 1819   Burstow, Surrey, England


 -----------------------------------------------

Not sure what happened between 1819 and 1824 is it another Joseph and Ann or did they return to Worth?


MARTEN VALANCE  Christening:  14 MAR 1824   Worth, Sussex, England
 
 Death:  27 MAR 1824   
 -----------------------------------------------
   
SARAH VALANCE  Christening:  12 JUN 1825   Worth, Sussex, England
--------------------------------------------------
ELIZABETH VALANCE   Christening:  25 FEB 1827   Worth, Sussex, England
 
 Death:  24 FEB 1832   
----------------------------------------------

ANN VALLANCE   Christening:  27 MAR 1831   Worth, Sussex, England

ELIZA VALANCE   Christening:  29 JUN 1834   Worth, Sussex, England
 
This is probably the marriage of the MARY VALLANCE   Christening:  04 FEB 1816   

Here is marriage of a Mary Vallance in Worth

Place: Worth, West Sussex,  Date:  3 Seep 1837:
Subject: James LOCK, lab 21+ son of Wm. LOCK lab
Spouse: Mary VALLANCE, sp 21+ dau of Jos. Lab botp (B)

And the significance of all this is because a William Terry married a Sarah Valance. 1841, Balcombe.(My ancestors)

On the Marriage cert, It says William Terry's Father is William a Laborer and that Sarah's father is William a Laborer.

No sign of William Valance at all that fits the bill (And I have looked extensively) and Joseph seems to fit very well (On many levels). Could William as Sarah's father on Marriage cert be an an error? (I would not consider this normally)

another little hint is that at the Wedding of William Terry and Sarah Valence, were the witnesses James & Mary Lock. Who appear to be those in the marriage above (James Lock to Mary Vallance) which also ties the earlier Burstow family in again with Worth (Where the marriage took place)

Any help opinions would be appreciated! 

Same family?

Cheers

Paul

[forester]

Hello Paul,

Here's my thoughts

On the Edward Valance marriage, I would guess there is a third witness, a Vallance with the initial missing in the transcription.

As far as the removal order goes, it looks like they were sent back to Burstow and Burstow parish presumably had to pay Worth the maintenance costs that had built up.

Don't put too much faith in the father's name given on marriage certificates. I have a cert for Mary Ann Gatton's marriage in 1852. Her father, Charles, died in 1832, when she was 2yrs old. On the cert her father is given as William. She had an uncle and an older brother with that name; take your pick. Was Joseph still alive when Sarah married?

Phil

[paulr]

Hello Phil

I appreciate your opinion.

It can seem like the easy way out to assume a mistake as that saves everything having to fit...but I have done a lot of research on this and unless there is something missing (Like a William Vallance/Valance) then it could be a slip of the Nib so to speak, as there was a William father present. (The Father of William Terry)

Not sure about the Joseph angle, that is a good point. Usually they say deceased dint they on later marriage certs if the father is dead.

But I suppose if he was alive it could still be a mistake.

I will check up

Thanks again for your help.

Cheers

Paul

[forester]

Have you got this one Paul?

Thomas Valance, christening, 14 Sept 1828, Worth.
Parents Joseph Valance and Ann.
IGI C071361 extracted entry.

There is no mention of the father being deceased on the cert in the case I posted earlier, although that's the way it has been done on other marriage certs I have.

Phil