Help - Matthew BUTLER b 1804 Iscoyd

[Bev Duckworth]

Can anyone help please ?

I am trying to track down Matthew BUTLER b approx 1804 in Iscoyd, Denbighshire.
According to the 1841 and 1851 census, he was married to Elizabeth and they lived in Overton with children George, James, Elizabeth, Mary, Thomas, Rebecca all born between 1834 and 1847.
But there is also a grandaughter with them in 1851 called Frances b. 1844 and daughter of Ann Butler.
Frances is too old to be the child of any of Matthew's children listed above so I wonder was he married twice? Could Ann be his daughter from a previous marriage?
Can anyone advise how I can find out ?
Any help much appreciated.

Thanks
Bev

[wrjones]

As far as Matthew butler is concerned,I loked in the following Parishes at the Clwyd FHS Resource Centre this afternoon for his Baptism;Iscoed,Holt,Marchwiel,Bangor-On-Dee,Hanmer,Overton and Ruabon without success.There was an Entry in the Worthenbury Parish Registers,which was for a "Matha" Butler on February 10th 1805,but no Parents details were given for this.

Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.

[Bev Duckworth]

Thanks for looking William - much appreciated.

You may have seen from my posting on the Flintshire board that I have reasoned out that Ann must be an older child of Matthew's.

I wonder why Matthew doesn't appear in the parish register. His younger child Mary doesn't appear either. I was assuming she may have been baptised elsewhere.

Oh well - I'll keep searching

Thanks
Bev

[wrjones]

I am sorry perhaps to lower the tone of things,but it could well be worth noting that Baptisms at Worthenbury wereoften of folk born in nearby Threapwood.It may be well worth you reading what Genuki says;
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/FLN/Threapwood/index.html

Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.

[Bev Duckworth]

Ooohh !!!
How fascinating - I have been longing for some dark secrets to come to light ! 
But I suspect if my Butler's were from Threapwood they wouldn't have been given their father's surname ? Unless of course, Matthew himself is a child of one of these women of loose or blemished morals.
It would certainly explain the lack of baptisms - but would they have baptised some of the children and not others ?

I also must admit to being hopelessly lost in the maze of Flintshire/Denbighshire/Shropshire and England/Wales boundaries !!! I have seen in the census returns references to both Ellesmere, Shropshire, England and Ellesmere, Flintshire, Wales.
I need to do some studying on Genuki to fathom out the parish boundaries and then I may be able to have a more structured search for Matthew's birth.

Thanks for your help,
Cheers
Bev

[Antonden]

What a coincidence. I happened to photograph a Matthew Butler's Headstone at Overton Churchyard on Tuesday.

[wrjones]

I wish I'd have known you were going there.lol

Regards
William Russell Jones.

[Antonden]

I took some other photos. Is there anyone in particular you are interested in?

[wrjones]

Thanks,any Lea,Roberts or Griffiths!

Regards
William Russell Jones.