This is a long shot! - UPDATE part two

[pipkim]

I've been searching high and low for Amelia Quinn nee Morgan my GG Grandmother.  

I have her back to 1861 and then a complete brickwall.

She was supposed to have been born in Liverpool Lancashire abt 1843.
Her mother Mary Morgan b.abt 1811 Ireland.
My family believe she was French or had French connections and ran off with a groom. Well she married a blacksmith in 1863. Amelia looks like she may have had an illegitimate son in 1860 called George (I've just realised could be her father's name if the following is true) and perhaps the shame was too much. 

Well, whilst widening my search, name wise, I found the following for 1851 census

George Morjeanstern b. abt 1791, France British Subject, Head, Confectioner? Leicester St Margaret
Mary Morjeanstern b. 1811, Ireland, Wife, Leicester St Margaret
Mosely Morjeanstern b. 1843, Liverpool Lancashire, Leicester St Margaret

I then looked for Morely's birth which came out at 'Mesilia Morjeanstern.
Can anyone out there tell me if this could be possibly the same person (Amelia)?
Did she change her name for convenience, shame or to fit in and how do I prove it?  

Does anyone know the meaning of the name Mesilia? or heard of Morjeanstern?

Here's hoping I've not added 2 and 2 and go 5!!!!

Many Thanks

Pipkim

 

[Arranroots]

Hi Pipkim

Massilia was the latin for Marseilles - there's a useless fact for you!

Have you identified gg grandma's marriage?  I would want to send for the cert to find out who her father was and what she was calling herself at that time!

There is certainly no-one with a name like Mesilia MORJEANSTERN on later censuses, which is promising!

An 1841 census look-up should be revealing, but they might be out of the country.  I wonder where the parents married?

Giving it some more thought...

kind regards, Arranroots 

[Arranroots]

I assume this is the 1861 you have matched it with?  Looks good to me, if it is!

RG9/2146/107/17

Mary MORGAN H W 51 - Ireland
Amelia dau U 19 - Liverpool Lancs
George son 17 mo - Staffordsh
Thomas RAFTERY lodger 46 - Ireland

56 Old Cross St, Birmingham St Peter

[pipkim]

Hi Arranroots,

Thank you for you speedy reply. RootsChat is a fantastic place with lots of great help.

Your name fact may hold some truth, I hope!

I am waiting for Amelia Morgans marriage certificate. I ordered it online so it would quick (4 days) but I suppose because of the BBC prog WDYTYA, online orders now take 3 weeks.
The anticipation for the arrival of certificates was bad enough, but now there is this new puzzle to answer. I also ordered her youngest sons certificate a while ago, but she put Morgan as her maiden name so I'm not holding out any hope.

Yes I have matched her up with the 1861 census, but cannot find George's birth in Staffordshire (Great Bridge) I will have to try other obscure names I think.

Any more ideas would be gratefully received.

Regards

Pipkim



 

[Manchester Rambler]

Two thoughts:

1.  The origin of the name might be MORGENSTERN - a German name which means "morning star". 

2.  In 1861, there's a good match for George in a workhouse in Mile End Old Town:

RG9/268/114/6
George Morgan  Inmate  Wid  71  Silk Weaver  b. France (British Subject)

Perhaps he was from Alsace-Lorraine?

Rambler

[Manchester Rambler]

It's possible George became a British Subject by naturalisation - there's info about naturalisation records on the Imigrants board at http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,130042.0.html

Rambler

[pipkim]

Hi Rambler,

Thanks for the extra info, I will look into the naturalisation of George, I think there is also documents on the national archives.

I read last night that Morgenstern could also be Jewish and that in some countries Austro-Hungarian regions for example they were forced to take German sounding names.

It's interesting you have found a possibility for him in 1861 Mile End. Perhaps the pregnancy of his daughter in 1859/60 was too much scandal for him ans so he left, may be I'll never know.

Many thanks for your help.

Pipkim

[KDQ]

Hello Pipkim

You should check out www.jewishgen.org .. there are lots of people on looking for Morgensterns ........  one of them might be able to help you .... worth a shot  .. you've done so well up to now... please don't give up....

Sorry, I can't be of more help.  Kind regards, Karen

[pipkim]

Hi Karen, 

Thanks for the support and thanks also for the web address I'll take a look at that.

Regards

Pipkim