Looking for info on Army units based in Ballincollig in 1866 & Harding ancestors

[liverpool annie]

I wonder if you already have the 1861 ......  there was also a William Harding born 1843 London !!


1861
Battery A, Royal Horse Artillery

Arthur Harding   25 Croydon, Surrey, England Driver (single)

RG9/431 Folio   256 Page   11

Annie 

[Daisypetal]

That would seem fit with the Arthur HARDING above, as part of the that family are in Croydon in 1841, but Arthur there seems to be John

1841 HO107/1078/7 f.21 p.34 Surrey, Croydon, Union Street, Old Town

Hannah GOFF   30  Charwoman  Y
Elizth HARDING   7                   Y
John  "  "           3                   Y
Sarah GOFF       2                   Y

There's a christening on the IGI for Sarah GOFF

GOFF Sarah 21 Jun 1840 Sutton by Croydon, Surrey
Father; William GOFF
Mother; Hannah

and a possible marriage for the parents,

GOFF William Jun Q 1839 Kensington v.3 p.175
HARDING Hannah Jun Q 1839 Kensington v.3 p.175

Daisy

[liverpool annie]

Looks like Elizabeth had died by 1871 - as James was married again in 1881 !!

1871
Wimbledon

James Allsopp 40 Head Wdw Waltham Abbey Essex

RG10/857 Folio 114 Page 6

1881
3 Factory Lane Garratt

James Allsopp Age 49 Head Waltham Abbey Essex Labourer In Silk Works

RG11/831 Folio 99 Page 2

Annie 

[Daisypetal]

Oh dear it looks like this may not be the right Arthur after all, unless Margaret was Margaret Ellen or she died before 1873 and Arthur remarried...

1881 census RG11/3884 f.34 p.18 Barton Upon Irwell, Lancashire

??port Road

Arthur HARDING Head  M  45 Army pensioner Toll gate keeper Surrey Clayton?
Ellen HARDING   Wife  M  37                                        Lancs Manchester
John HARDING    Son       7         Scholar                     East Indies Julinder
Sarah E  "  "     Daur       5              "  "                        "  "            "  "
George   "  "      Son      3                                           "  "         "  "

There is an IGI entry for John

HARDING John
Birth; 24 Jul 1873 India Office Ecclesiastical Returns-Bengal Presidency...Misc...India
Father; Arthur HARDING
Mother; Ellen

(He's still in  Barton Upon Irwell in 1891 with more children, and in 1901 he's in Salford Lancashire owning his own Grocers shop.)

but it may explain why no-one can find Arthur and Margaret on any census

Daisy

[Mike A]

Morning all - well, at least it's morning over here! Can't spend a lot of time on this today as my daughter is claiming my time for kitchen renovations!

I am overwhelmed by the interest being shown and for the help I am getting - thank you!

Annie, I had previously found the entry for Arthur Harding in the R.A. and got quite excited as it all seemed to fit. I then found the 1881 Lancashire census entry which does not fit at all, so I abandoned that line of enquiry. However, perhaps I should not have dismissed this so easily, because there are a couple of interesting coincidences highlighted by your post.

First coincidence:
Arthur Harding's occupation in the 1881 census for LANCASHIRE is given as "Toll Gate Keeper, SURREY"! Lancashire is a long way from Surrey, so this is a very difficult entry to understand. I guess it's possible that Arthur had to work in Surrey and was visiting his family at the time of the 1881 census, but this does not seem all that likely. The real coincidence, though, is that the William Harding living in Surrey in 1841, who was born in 1801 and who may have been my great-grandfather Arthur's father, also had the occupation of "Toll Collector"! Although there is a 40 year gap between these entries, it is interesting that both men were "Toll Keepers" in Surrey.....

Second coincidence:
You say that in 1901 he (John?) was in Salford owning his own Grocer's shop. Now my grandfather Arthur and Minnie Allsop's marriage certificate dated 7 March 1896 shows his father's occupation as "licensed victualler", which I understand could mean either a provisions store or a public house. I wonder if Arthur senior died between 1896 and 1901, and John took over the shop? This doesn't explain why Arthur's wife's name is given as "Ellen", but as you say, perhaps Margaret Long's name was "Mary Ellen" or she had died before John was born in 1873 and Arthur had remarried?

Daisy:
I have all the info on James Allsop and I'm fairly sure he remarried - to his housekeeper, Sarah Brand - in 1876.
The info on the GOFF family is also intriguing. This is the first time I've come across this name, which I would not have thought was all that common - not as common as Harding, anyway. The juxtaposition of the name Goff with Harding in the entries you quote seems to be a bit more than sheer coincidence! The confusing entry to "John" instead of "Arthur" might be explained if his name was Arthur John and the family used his second name in preference.

Darn it, why didn't they realise we would be researching their history 160-odd years later and make things easy for us?!!

Must sign off now.
Mike

[Daisypetal]

Hi Mike,

Hope your renovations are going/have gone well (I've no idea what time it is where you are )

By the way, not that it matters, but I think you've mixed up mine and Annie's posts, so it's me that has to apologise for the confusing transcription of the 1881 census,

It shows Arthur's occupation as Army Pensioner.Toll gate keeper, and his place of birth as Surrey Clayton? also on taking another look he is living in the village of Irlam in the Civil Parish of Barton Upon Irwell.

He is also there in 1891

RG12/3156 f.16 p.25 Irlam, Barton Upon Irwell, Lancashire

Toll Bar House (entries either side are 54/Liverpool Rd/48)

Arthur HARDING  Head M  54   Collector of Tolls     Surrey Croydon
Ellen        "  "     Wife  M  42                              Ches: Macclesfeld
John        "  "     Son   S   17  Grocer                   Julinder East Indies
Sarah E    "  "     Daur      15                              Murrey Hills  "  "
George     "  "     Son       13                              Rollpinda      "  "
Lillian       "  "     Daur       9                               Lanc: Irlam
Henrietta  "  "     Daur       7                                 "  "      "  "
James      "  "     Son        4                                 "  "      "  "

There is an article about Irlam here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irlam

In 1901 it is Arthur in Salford

RG13/3734 f.149 p.29 Salford, Lancashire 

178 Tatton? St.

Arthur HARDING  Head  M  64 Grocer Shop Keeper/Own acc./At home/ Surrey Croydon
Ellen        "  "     Wife   M  54                                          Cheshire Macclesfield
Sarah E    "  "     Daur   S  25  Machinist (under-clothes)      East Indies
George     "  "     Son    S  23  Labourer  ???maker               East Indies
Henrietta  "  "     Daur       16  Dressmaker                         Lancs Irlam
James      "  "     Son        15  Office boy                             "  "    "  "

I've also found a possible death for Arthur Snr,

HARDING Arthur Dec Q 1902 age 61 Salford, Greater Manchester, Lancashire v.8d p.104

Right after all that typing I'm off to get some coffee 

Daisy

[Mike A]

Hi Mike,

Hope your renovations are going/have gone well (I've no idea what time it is where you are )

Yes, thanks - I'm pleased with the results. More to the point, so is my daughter! Canberra (Australia) is currently 9 hours ahead of London.

By the way, not that it matters, but I think you've mixed up mine and Annie's posts.

Sorry - I think I must have had yet another senior moment.........!

I'm back to thinking that the Hardings in Lancashire are probably not the right family - but one interesting fact is that their children were born in the East Indies. This seems to indicate that Arthur may have been posted overseas with his regiment. Since my great grandfather was also in the R.A., perhaps he was posted overseas around the same time, which might account for the difficulty in finding information on him.

I will be in Montreal on business from 6 to 19 May, then in London from 20 to 29 May, and in Ballincollig from 29 to 31 May, before returning to Oz on 2 June. I am going to take the opportunity to visit the Family Research Centre and also the National Archives in London. Maybe I will turn up some more information there.

Thanks again for the help.
Regards
Mike

[Mike A]

Trying to post a picture here of my grandfather, Arthur Harding - hope it works!

[Mike A]

Eureka! O.K., now I'm going to try posting a smaller version as an Avatar.....  First I'll download it here, then try posting the URL to my profile....