1841 lookup please - Farnham

[Jang]

Could SKS check the 1841 census for Farnham for John Eridge please? I'm trying to find a Kneller family living next door.

The info I have says that in 1835 "the clues led Edwards to Farnham which is adjacent to Rusthall, where he spoke to John Eridge who lived next door to a Mrs Kneller, Samuel Walters’ sister."

I'm trying to identify Mrs Kneller and family. :-)

Many thanks
Jan

[Jane Masri]

Hi Jan,
Ahhh, a treasure hunt  but I'm a bit confused.  I found Farnham's in Dorset, Wilts, Essex, Herts, hants, Surrey, Suffolk & Yorkshire & Rusthall in Kent & Sussex.  I also think there is a Farnham in Kent but can't confirm that.  I was just wondering if you had the right county.  Any more clues?

jane

[Jang]

Hi Jane,

I'm confused too. I found Rusthall in Kent but the only Farnham I could find that I thought was close by (?) was in Surrey. If there's one in Kent, then that's the one I want.

I wish it was a treasure hunt :-) The clues referred to the hunt for Samuel Walters from Withyham in Sussex - he'd stolen over 1000 holly sticks from the Earl de la Warr's estate. The clever detective had tracked him down to his sister's place in Farnham "adjacent to Rusthall" where John Eldridge "saw three men putting some bundles of holly sticks into Mrs Kneller’s garden. They trimmed them and re-tied them into bundles."

It's Samuel's sister I'm trying to find out about.

Jan

[Jane Masri]

Hi jan,
Ummm...... Rusthall is a little west of Tunbridge Wells, Kent.
Withyham is 5.76 miles SW of Rusthall just inside the Kent/Sussex border.  Farnham is way over in West Surrey close to the Hants border in fact from Rusthall to Farnham is 64.57 miles.  I can't see where Farnham, 'adjacent to Rusthall' comes in    When I look ar Rusthall on the map I can't see a Farnham anywhere near it & there's no Farnham in Sussex.
Looking for some more on Samuel I found the following likely marriage on the Sussex Marriage Index,

First the licence details,

 Archdeaconry of Lewes Marriage Licence,  28 Jan 1829:
 Samuel WALTER, bach 21+ brickmaker Rotherfield
 Sophia RICHARDSON, sp 21+ Mayfield
Extra Information: SRS 26

Then the marriage.  Rotherfield is adjacent to Withyham,

Rotherfield, East Sussex,   29 Jan 1829:
 Samuel WALTER, bach otp (lic)
 Sophia RICHARDSON, sp Mayfield
 Witness wits: Henry BEDWELL; John WOOD

I've looked on the Place names site  http://www.fhsc.org.uk/genuki/REG/  and can't find Farnham in Kent.
I've looked on the Sussex & Surrey marriage indexes & Pallots for a female Walters' to a male Kneller marriage...zilch.  Also a quick look at FreeBMD with no luck 
Where is this Earl's estate?

Nothing is forth coming for any of the names on the 1841 census, but that's because we've got so little information & there are so many counties involved.  My only bit of luck was,
1841 - Wadhurst (next to Rotherfield)  HO107/1116/9/15/4

Samuel Walter  38  ag lab
Sophia               32
Sarah                 11
William               10
All born Sussex which ties-in with that marriage.

Jane

 


 

[Jang]

Hi Jane,

Thanks for the detective work :-) Looks like I'm in the wrong county. The Samuel Walters marriage you found is another Samuel Walters - it misled me for quite a while as my Samuel was also a brickmaker. (I still suspect they were related somehow.) He married Ann Luxford and had a son Frederick born ca 1835 in Kent before he was transported in 1836.

The only info I have about the Earl's estate was that the crime took place at Fishers Gate on the Buckhurst Estate - I think it was west of Withyham as "William Creasey, keeper of the Turnpike Gate at Groombridge said, "On Sunday night of 29 November I let a cart through the gate; it was going to Withyham. The cart was then empty. The same evening about 9 o’ clock the same cart came through again – it was coming from Withyham. It was then loaded with a great many holly sticks."

I was hoping John Eridge was still living at Farnham. I found a couple living in Kent in the ancestry index - one born ca 1821 the other born ca 1801 - both spelt Erridge - and was hoping one was living at Farnham or Rusthall.

Best wishes
Jan

[Jane Masri]

Hi Jan,
Thought you might be interested in this link about the Buckhurst Estate at Withyham & the Earls of de la Warr, the Sackville family.

http://www.villagenet.co.uk/ashdownforest/villages/withyham.php

Groombridge is on the road between Rusthall & Withyham. If Samuel was 'from Withyham',  it looks like he made his way to Rusthall,  picked up the empty cart, went back to Withyham, loaded up the holly sticks & returned to Rusthall where he off-loaded them in his sisters garden.  Did the transportation order have an age on it for Samuel?  It looks like he lived in Kent as his son was born there.  Do you have a date for this incident? & a date & place for his marriage?
I was wondering what happened to poor Ann & Frederick  I did find an Ann Walter age 30 in Tonbridge workhouse but no sign of Frederick,

Jane

[Jang]

Hi Jane,

Thanks for the link about the Buckhurst Estate - now I know for sure it was at Withyham. Samuel borrowed the cart from a Mr King, a corn dealer of Tunbridge Wells and the horse from John Roots, a carrier of Tunbridge Wells. Roots took the sticks to Old Change in London where they were sold to persons unknown.

Samuel was born 20 Jan 1808 Tunbridge Wells Kent and baptised 6 Mar 1808 Frant Sussex, the son of Samuel Walters and Rebecca Hoade.

Thanks for finding Ann Walter in the workhouse - that would fit, I think. Son Frederick later came to Australia in 1860 (perhaps after his mother died?) with his wife Catherine Anastasia Falvay and daughter Mary Ann born about 1858 in Surrey (that from the passenger list) - maybe I am in the right county after all :-)

Samuel is a fascinating character - he went on to marry three more times and have 13 children, the last when he was 64! He acquired a lot of land in Sydney and died a wealthy man.

Regards
Jan

[Jane Masri]

What a fascinating story, Jan.  You've done well to have put it all together    And good for Samuel to have found success in Oz!
This is the marriage of his parents.  I must say everyone moved around alot in that family...must have had itchy feet,


Herstmonceux, East Sussex,   28 Apr 1805:
 Samuel WALTER
 Rebecca HOAD

I can't be sure if it's Ann, I'll try & find her & Frederick on the 1851 later today.  Just need to find the marriage of his sister to complete the circle!

Jane
 

[Jang]

Thanks for the marriage, Jane. Interesting to see his surname was Walter - the 's' must have been added in Australia. Frederick was listed as Walter on the passenger list but was Walters when he died. It must have been hard on Ann being left behind with a baby. I was pleased when I found that Frederick had finally joined his father in Australia.

I'd love to be able to find Mrs Kneller - I'll try the Kent board to see if someone can locate John Eridge.
Best wishes
Jan