OWENS AND DAVIES

[celia]

Hi Garreth
See the topic  Brownlow Hill By Flaherty 835 right above yours at the moment. Maybe the person who wrote the certificate out,was very lovely and thoughtful and didn't want the child in later years to find out she was born in a workhouse.So accidentally on purpose forgot to add that bit,it is possible or was.

Celia P.S. I would think that because it had an a. after 144 it was ajected to 144 would mean that the infirmary was for the sick in the workhouse or for the delivery of babies of the woman working there.but thats just my opinion

[colette]

Hi 144a Brownlow Hill was once the Workhouse it became the Infirmary afterwards, i have the birth cert of my father in law b 1922, i also have his mothers admission records to the infirmary from the Liverpool Records Office.

On both birth cert and admission records her address was Circus St she was admitted a day before she gave birth.

As you said to me her mum lived at Limekiln Lane on Margarets birth cert.

You can get the admission records they are in a large book, they give religion/ next of kin / address/ and also Margaret Catherine will have an admission record the day she was born.

I really think he was the Thomas Owens in Tunstall St in 1911 the Electrican.
I checked out the other address's you mentioned but cannot find them at any in 1911.

I also think being an Owens and a Davies they may have come from Wales.

Or maybe Mary had been married before and this is why you cannot find a Mary Davies and Thomas Richard Owens marriage.

Not sure what to think really


Colette

[garethgriffiths]

Hi Folks
Success!
Have had the copy of the Liverpool Creed Register from L'pool RO shows Mary Owens aged 19 and birth entry for Marg. Cath. Owens my grandmother, confusingly mentions Mary Farrell mother (now seems to be mother in law?), earlier entry same page shows same names so she must have gone in on 2 July 1901 till 10 July (poss false alarm/rest?). then readmitted 22 July, baby born 23 July.

Mary Owens was shown as a widow aged 19!  John Richard Owens died somewhere about 1908/9 then?

Breakthrough!!
I have found some of them in 1901 census, see my message 28 Marlborough St for further query please.
regards and thanks for help so far...
Gareth

[colette]

Hi Gareth well at least thats a bit of progress..
Just wondering though did it say MOTHER for Mary Farrell if so wouldnt she be Mary Davies's mother..
I think the one person you would want with you when giving birth would be your mum..

Checking out Free BMD all marriages from 1900=1909 have been transcribed, so if there marriage should be there.
There were two Mary Davies marriages with only 2 men on page and 3 woman one in 1908 and the other in 1909 i have tried to cross match them on ancestry's beta index for John or Thomas Owens and no match.

Mary would have been born in 1890-1 but we dont know for sure if she was born in Liverpool or not.

The marriage had to take place 1906 at the earliest as she would have been 15-16, so if it was England or Wales it should be on Free BMD AS I SAID THEY HAVE DONE THESE YEARS..

I'll get back if i find anything for you.

Colette

[garethgriffiths]

Thanks Colette
I am going thought the mill on this side of the family but I have had some research done at Liverpool RO, oddly directories seem to skip 28 Marlborough St. 

Yes it did say mother Mary Farrell and I had thought it was Mary's mother Davies who had possibly remarried but I am swayed after finding the 1901 family where John (Richard) Owens mother is called Mary Owens, as she was a widow it is possible she remarried Farrell, at this time its a stronger option.  Of course it is feasible Mary's own mother had died by then but no proof yet.

I agree that the marriage of these two; John Richard Owens to Mary Davies is circa 1906-23 July 1909 when Mary was listed in the Workhouse Creed Register as a widow.  It also seems Mary was C of E however John was RC, the baby my grandmother Margaret Catherine Owens was shown in this register as RC as well, maybe an influence of Mary Farrell?

The 1901 shows the Owens living with Kerrigan and Fargis.
Three options for John Owens are -
John Owens born Liverpool in March Quarter 1891, Vol. 8b, page 52.
John Owens born Liverpool in March Quarter 1892, Vol. 8b, page 118.
John Owens born Liverpool in September Quarter 1892, Vol. 8b, page 124.

Also this means John Richard Owens died before 23 July 1909 however if he was the father then he had to be alive 9 months earlier, i.e. October 1908 so he died between these dates however he may have died in Canada? Halifax?

Still remian confused over family story of him dying in an explosion and some reference to telegraphanist, I have found some Owens who are boilerman and telegraphanist.
regards Gareth

[colette]

Hi Garath the only marriage to be found is John Owens to Mary Ellen Davies Ruthin Denbighshire June 1907 116 493.
There is definatly no other John Owens Mary Davies marriage between 1905-1909.

How do you know for sure you have the right family on the 1901.
Do any old relatives say they were born in Liverpool ?

In 1911 there was a Thomas Davies at number 93 Limekiln Lane a Greengrocer.. just incase hes connected..

Colette

[garethgriffiths]

Hi Colette
Im glad your on board with this one, its good to chat to someone who offers such detailed advice, thanks.

Right, the creed register had two entries in July 1909 for Mary Owens 19 widow of Jn Richard Owens about a fortnight apart, I knew the 49 Limekiln address from the birth cert for my grandmother, then i noticed another Mary Davies also 19 further up the page living at 28 Marlborough St., L'pool.  in both cases it said mother Mary Farrell however the birth cert shows Mary Owens formerly Davies and the creed doesnt mention Davies at all.  Mary Farrell is the mother in law formerly Owens to Mary owens widow of John Richard Owens, she was formerly Davies.

That took me to 1901 to look at who lived at both addressess, and at 28 Marlborough I see an Owens family with John aged 10 who I presume to be my John Richard Owens, his mother Mary Owens then 40 was a widow so she could be remarried to a Farrell between 1901-1909.  Havent found her yet.

Yes i do keep coming back to that Ruthin entry, info from my mother born in Everton 1932 states mention of Wales, Holywell, poss Anglesey, telegraph operator, explosion in Halifax, Canada, boilers, electrican, electic light bulb factory or some other factory, shopkeepers in Middlesborough and L'pool.
regards Gareth

[garethgriffiths]

Collette
I have ordered the Ruthin marriage certificate from GRO and see what comes of it, thanks for advice.
regards Gareth

[colette]

Hi Gareth, i think thats a wise move just to rule them out if anything. but you never know..

Cannot find any trace of a  Farrell, Owens marriage at at

Col