Author Topic: New to research in Ireland - help! Belfast - O'RORKE  (Read 3070 times)

Offline esse

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New to research in Ireland - help! Belfast - O'RORKE
« on: Tuesday 06 June 06 19:43 BST (UK) »
Hello to all, I'm new to Rootschat today and new to any research in Ireland, but this looks like a friendly place so I thought I'd try my luck! I've done plenty of genealogy in England and Wales, but I'm lost on starting in N Ireland - hope some kind souls can help my naive questions.

Having gulped and paid the fee to see some records at the Ulster Historical Foundation, I've discovered my great grandmother, Margaret Petty, born in Belfast 12/05/1865 to Charles and Mary Petty. Charles was a shoe/bootmaker/cordwainer from Yorkshire, and the couple had their first two children, Margaret and Jane, in Belfast, then moved back to Yorkshire. Still have no idea how they met as I have found no marriage in the UK and no marriage to a Charles Petty in the UHF! The UHF birth records give me two separate reference to Margaret's birth (unsure why), and differ as to address: one states 27 Derry St, and one 27 Berry St. I've asked the UHF if one is a transcription error, but I'm wondering if anyone can shed any light? Both entries list this as townland/parish "Urban 3" - I see Berry St seems to exist still quite centrally (now siding a shopping centre in Belfast?) but I see also mentions of a Derry St. online, so I can't exclude either.  Can anyone suggest which is more likely for Urban 3?

Charles remained a shoemaker in Belfast while he was there, so, bearing in mind he might have had a shop, would Berry Street be the most likely address in 1865? Is there any chance any other records would survive for their possible marriage in Ireland just prior to this, or of the existence of trade records? I've found an IGI record, but this adds no information. English census records indicate they only stayed in Ireland after marriage until about 1869.

Secondly, one of the certificates indicates that Margaret's mother Mary's maiden name is listed as "ORORKE". She was born about 1846. I'm lost on how to trace her back further... I'm clear that "O" is akin to "Mac" for the Scottish, a clan/family association for grandfather's name etc., but would for instance such a name be easily listed elsewhere as O'Rorke, Rorke, O Rorke, and would variants like Rourke, Roark etc. be still common in the 1840s-60s - would for instance her father and mother quite possibly call themselves by one of these variations?  Doing a little reading it's clear that the O'Rourke's traditional ancestral home is from Cavan etc., and Mary's parents may not of course have been born in Belfast. Being embarrassingly ignorant of Irish names myself, could anyone hazard a guess for me at the mobility of such names in the early 19th century?

Sorry to sound so clueless - very new to Irish genealogy. Please be kind to my rather dim questions!
England:
WATTON: Sedgley/Manchester; TORKINGTON: Manchester; NEVILLE: Hanley, Staffs; MITCHELL: Bradford/Keighley; PETTY(T): Bolton Abbey/Addingham/Hazlewood/Pudsey/Bradford; ROBINSON, SHEPHERD/SHAPORT, SETTLE, BEARDER, WATERHOUSE: Bradford.

Wales:
GRIFFITHS, EDWARDS: Cefn Mawr/Garth/Llangollen.

Ireland:
NEVILLE: Dublin; O'RORKE/RORKE: Belfast.

Offline audrey

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Re: New to research in Ireland - help! Belfast - O'RORKE
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 06 June 06 20:16 BST (UK) »
Marriage
Charles Petty
 to
Mary O Rorke age 20 years

6/3/1864 Civil  Reg.

H/F Christopher Petty

W/F Robert O Rorke

audrey

Offline esse

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Re: New to research in Ireland - help! Belfast - O'RORKE
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 06 June 06 20:24 BST (UK) »
Oh goodness thanks Audrey! That's definitely them, Charles father was Christopher, a shoemaker too from Yorkshire. Could I ask where this record is from: is it a marriage in N Ireland/Belfast? I searched high and low (well, I thought I did) in England and found nothing. Could I get any more details somehow?
England:
WATTON: Sedgley/Manchester; TORKINGTON: Manchester; NEVILLE: Hanley, Staffs; MITCHELL: Bradford/Keighley; PETTY(T): Bolton Abbey/Addingham/Hazlewood/Pudsey/Bradford; ROBINSON, SHEPHERD/SHAPORT, SETTLE, BEARDER, WATERHOUSE: Bradford.

Wales:
GRIFFITHS, EDWARDS: Cefn Mawr/Garth/Llangollen.

Ireland:
NEVILLE: Dublin; O'RORKE/RORKE: Belfast.

Offline audrey

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Re: New to research in Ireland - help! Belfast - O'RORKE
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 06 June 06 20:33 BST (UK) »
Marriage
Christopher Petty to
Jane Vause
31/8/1817 at St.Mayrice Church York
sorry no further info on the first one

audrey


Offline esse

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Re: New to research in Ireland - help! Belfast - O'RORKE
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 06 June 06 20:42 BST (UK) »
That last one's a miss - Christopher Petty married a Margaret Hanson in Addingham, and with help I have the Petty/Pettyt's back another 6 generations. But I'm really trying to trace Mary O Rorke - thanks so much for the previous information which is going to really help.

If anyone has any suggestions on the questions above about Belfast townlands/likely streets, and name variation/likely origins to a beginner, that would be much appreciated!
England:
WATTON: Sedgley/Manchester; TORKINGTON: Manchester; NEVILLE: Hanley, Staffs; MITCHELL: Bradford/Keighley; PETTY(T): Bolton Abbey/Addingham/Hazlewood/Pudsey/Bradford; ROBINSON, SHEPHERD/SHAPORT, SETTLE, BEARDER, WATERHOUSE: Bradford.

Wales:
GRIFFITHS, EDWARDS: Cefn Mawr/Garth/Llangollen.

Ireland:
NEVILLE: Dublin; O'RORKE/RORKE: Belfast.

Offline Anthony

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Re: New to research in Ireland - help! Belfast - O'RORKE
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 06 June 06 21:45 BST (UK) »
Hi



                                                 

Offline esse

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Re: New to research in Ireland - help! Belfast - O'RORKE
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 06 June 06 21:58 BST (UK) »
Wow, thanks Anthony - intriguing. It was Charles Petty, Mary's wife who brought the family's shoemaking business briefly to Belfast from Yorkshire for roughly the period 1864-69, where they had two daughters, Margaret and Jane before relocating back to Yorkshire. With Audrey's information above and yours, I'm wondering if Charles Petty made a trade connection with Mary's father and thus met her.

Does anyone know if this is feasible? I always thought of a shoemaking as a small and static profession, and would be surprised, but have no explanation for how Charles met Mary.

Is this a trade directory you have and can you do address lookups? If so, would it be possible to lookup up the occupants of 27 Berry Street around 1865? And 27 Derry Street too I guess, if it exists, as the UHF records are so far ambiguous.

Thanks so much for your help!
- esse
England:
WATTON: Sedgley/Manchester; TORKINGTON: Manchester; NEVILLE: Hanley, Staffs; MITCHELL: Bradford/Keighley; PETTY(T): Bolton Abbey/Addingham/Hazlewood/Pudsey/Bradford; ROBINSON, SHEPHERD/SHAPORT, SETTLE, BEARDER, WATERHOUSE: Bradford.

Wales:
GRIFFITHS, EDWARDS: Cefn Mawr/Garth/Llangollen.

Ireland:
NEVILLE: Dublin; O'RORKE/RORKE: Belfast.

Offline teap78

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Re: New to research in Ireland - help! Belfast - O'RORKE
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 06 June 06 22:32 BST (UK) »
Hi esse it looks like its going to be 27 Derry street, 


Derry Street Belfast, post code BT13 1NS
District Electoral Division : Belfast No. 3

Parish: Shankill - Upper Belfast Barony - Parliamentary Division : North Belfast

Colette
Doyle, Mullan, Mulholland, O'Neill, McCann, Lowry, Mullen, Forsythe, Magilton, Farnan.  Banbridge Co Down , Belfast Co Antrim and Dungannon Co Tyrone .

Offline esse

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Re: New to research in Ireland - help! Belfast - O'RORKE
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 06 June 06 23:28 BST (UK) »
Hi Colette - thanks! Is that from a modern directory as it has a postcode too? Derry Street certainly seems to have existed in 1901 from the Street directory then:

http://www.from-ireland.net/censabstracts/ant/1901/belfast/d/derry.htm

and in the 1880 directory it's listed as being "off Crimea Street" which is still there, running north from Shankill Rd, as you say - but I can't see a Derry Street now, at least on Google Maps... it would be great if at least I could confirm that Berry Street isn't in Urban 3. Sadly Derry Street isn't listed in the 1861 directory on the same site above, which would be the closest date to my ancestors'.

Actually I'm still a bit confused, as Audrey's birth record records Margaret's birth at "332,belfast No 6", which is at odds with the UHF address either way if the 6 is an Urban district number. If anyone can shed any light on this... meanwhile I'll pore through maps!

- esse
England:
WATTON: Sedgley/Manchester; TORKINGTON: Manchester; NEVILLE: Hanley, Staffs; MITCHELL: Bradford/Keighley; PETTY(T): Bolton Abbey/Addingham/Hazlewood/Pudsey/Bradford; ROBINSON, SHEPHERD/SHAPORT, SETTLE, BEARDER, WATERHOUSE: Bradford.

Wales:
GRIFFITHS, EDWARDS: Cefn Mawr/Garth/Llangollen.

Ireland:
NEVILLE: Dublin; O'RORKE/RORKE: Belfast.