US censuses 1890, 1900, 1910 and 1920

[rogerofgoostrey]

Hi Everyone

I am looking for Philip John Williams who emigrated to America after 1889 and was there in 1921 when he was a baptist minister. He therefore could appear in any census from 1890 through to 1920.

Philip John Williams was born 1859 in Yorkley, Gloucestershire and in 1881 he was a blacksmith in Stoke, Staffordshire.

Any help in locating Philip will be gratefully appreciated.

Kind Regards

Roger

[avm228]

Hello Roger,

You don't ask for 1930 so perhaps you have it already? But if not this family may be of interest:

Auburn City, Cayuga Cty, New York, 1930:

Philip J. Williams head - aged 70 - age at first marriage 29 - born in England of English parents - immigrated 1882 but not naturalised - no occupation

Lottie E. Williams - wife - aged 65 - age at first marriage 24 - born in Pennsylvania of Pennsylvanian parents - no occupation

John R. Williams - son - aged 22 - single - born in New York [State] - professor in a theological seminary.

Other info - the family is living in a home which they own, worth $6,000, which is not a farm; they own a radio set (!); and they can all read and write.

The 1890 US census was destroyed by fire.  I will see if I can find this family in 1900-1920.

Anna

[avm228]

1920 census: Moravia, Cayuga Cty, New York:

Phillip (sic) J. Williams, head, 60, immigrated 1881 naturalised 1886, born England of English parents, clergyman in local church

Lottie E. Williams, wife, 56, b Pennsylvania, no occupation

Charles F. Williams, son, 21, b New York, no occupation

Grace E. Williams, daur, 28, b New York, teacher at High School

Charllotta (sic) Williams, daur, 15, b New York

John R. Williams, 11, b New York

The family is living in a rented property.

HTH

Anna

[rogerofgoostrey]

Hi Anna

That's brilliant.  I am sure that you have the correct Philip John Williams.  I had him for definite in the 1881 UK census but a possible marriage in Bristol in 1889 but this could be a different man with the same name. He would however have been 29 years old if this was my man.  Lets hope that you can find him in the other US censuses.  I think that some of the 1890 census did survive the fire.

Thank you so much for your help. 
Kind regards

Roger

[Tees]

Hi Roger,

Your best bet would be to get the naturalization papers on your Philip John Williams as it is very detailed including the names of his wife and children.

It will note the birthplace and birth dates for everyone.

It will also tell you when and which ship he came on.

Since he was naturalised, you could get them. The best part of the papers is called the petition for the naturalization--this is a very detailed document along with the naturalization certificate as it will list his appearance and height. On all the documents, you would see his signatures.

Kind regards,

Tees

PS This is how I got more information on my great-grandparents. Currently, I am waiting for the results from Ireland to see if I am spot on my great-granny's birth date. 

[rogerofgoostrey]

Hi Tees

Thanks for the tip regatding naturalisation papers.  How do I go about getting copies and what does it cost?

Kind regards

Roger

[avm228]

Hello again Roger,

www.castlegarden.org is a good site for New York immigrations.  He could be the Philip Williams aged 22, blacksmith, shown as arriving on the City of New York from England on 20 Mar 1882.

www.vitalrec.com is a good site for US vital records, including naturalization papers.  There's no central US vital records registry; it is all done by state.  It looks as though New York (and perhaps Cayuga County) would be a good starting place for you; details of how to contact the relevant offices are on that website.

I've spent quite a lot of time searching for pre-1920 entries for your people, but with no success yet. I've got pressing work deadlines but may be able to have another try for you later.

Anna

[Tees]

Hi Roger,

If you wait until you find out where Mr Williams may have lived in 1890 Census or 1900 Census before proceeding to get naturalization papers as the naturalizations were done at the courts (that is how things were done back then--it is still done today but in fewer courts).

Alternatively, you would able to get such papers from the Archives down in Washington, DC. I would have to search for the postal address so you can send for it. They will charge you for the cost of photocopies--I am not sure if they will charge you more because you are not American?

It will be about 4 weeks or so before you hear anything from them. Can you imagine them shifting through all old papers to find your ancestor's??

For me, I had a lucky guess and the luck of chance. I was in the neighbourhood completing a transaction with a certain governmental official. The court was across from where I was doing my paperwork.

I decided to go into and look for the room that hold old naturalization papers. Not knowing anything about how nautralization works or how to ask for such documents!!

A kind gentleman asked me what year did my great-grandfather applied (that time males were generally naturalised, not wives or children--they had to be naturalised WITH them). I guessed a year and he went to the shelf. He took a lodger--a huge book at that!! He paged through and found him! After he found it, he showed me and asked me if I have a right person and family. You could have seen my eyes being popped out!!

IT was him and his family--on this very document, it listed my beloved granny! That is how I know that I had a right family.

I said yes! The gentleman was taken with surprise and asked me if I am certain about it. I explained to him that I know my granny's and her sister's birth dates along with their parents' names.

He smiled and he told me to wait. He went back and make photocopies of all the documents from the first application to the very certificate of naturalization! Mind you, they are the ORIGINALS--they worked much like the Register Offices--they kept two books--one for the court to keep and other to be sent to the national capital.

He gave them to me. I asked him how much do I have to pay for them. He shook his head and said they are mine for free as it is the first time he ever seen anyone got the right person and right family WITHOUT knowing the exact date of naturalization! I walked home with the photocopies and showed them to my Mum.

Mum was very impressed with my findings. She asked me if I could try and find one more on other ancestor of ours. Sadly, this ancestor married to a supposedly citizen--no records of her at all!

Some months after my finding, my cousin who had an original certificate (THE CERTIFICATE)--the information matched nicely and correct against mine.

He did not have other documents I have--so I made some copies for him as well!

Regards,

Tees

Hi Tees

Thanks for the tip regatding naturalisation papers.  How do I go about getting copies and what does it cost?

Kind regards

Roger

[Tees]

Roger,

I will PM you with the contact information.

Kind regards,

Tees