Great Grandmother - possibly Irish

[BrianS]

I am currently concentrating on one of my Great Grandmothers side of the family but have become stuck already, I have been looking for her birthdate in 1906 on the UK indexes and it does not appear to be there.

I was speaking to my father about it and he said she could possibly of been born in Ireland and moved over here at a very young age.

Is there any easy way to find a possiblt birth record from the early 1900's from Ireland??

Thanks for you help.

[BrianS]

Just had confirmation from the UK GRO that there is no record of her being born over here (England), so Ireland looks a definate.

What criteria will I need to apply for a birth cert / reference check??

[Cell]

Hi,

I don't know if you've tried any of this below . I'm pretty much  a novice in researching my Irish tree  myself , but I  thought I'd reply as you  haven't received any replies yet . I  thought I'd make a few suggestions for you to try if you haven't already done this below of course:

You could trying applying  to the Gro ( either Roscommon or NI GRO)  with all the details you do have; your  given birth date , and  her father's name etc (and mother's if you do know it  of course). If you have enough details, they should be able search a few yrs around your given date for her
.
I've never tried Roscommon myself , I use the the NI Gro , which I must say in my own experiences with them  they have been very helpful  - I  really must take my  hat off to them. For example they recently searched  from my given birth date in 1907, they couldn't find it  with their first (5 year) search - so then they searched  right back to 1890!  a 17 yr period! 
They even found one of the siblings of the person I was trying to order  and asked if I wanted to order that one instead , which they certainly weren't obliged to go back that far for my given money ( 11pounds ie  they should have only searched ten years for my money) . They are supposed to only search 5 yrs for 5 pounds 50. They have been really helpful, I can't praise the service that I've had off them enough - But saying all that, I knew most of the details when I have ordered my certs from them ( ie both  the parents names and what area the person was born)

 ordering certs:
http://www.groireland.ie/
http://www.groni.gov.uk/index.htm

You could either submit the application form online with the NI Gro , or by slow mail with *Roscommon (*which I think is  the cheaper one to order by) , or phone (or email) either of them and ask them if it's possible to search for her with the info you do have.

If she comes from Ulster there is familyUlster that you can pay for  a look up in the indexes a pound a year (no pound sign on my keyboard) .I don't know if there are any similar sites for the rest of Ireland.

Have you tried all the usual sites  first, on the off chance she may be listed on one of them?  http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/frame_1280.cfm

some more links:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,3996.msg62738.html#msg62738


You say Ireland is a definite as she is not registered in England in 1906. I guess you, or the GRO have searched  all the years around that given birth year of 1906 too, 1904, 1905 1907 and 1908 etc just in case she was not born in the year you think she was born in?
 
Have you thought of  Scotland too? Or even Overseas?
Have you also thought that she may not even be registered ( although it was required by law - it can also be a small possibility; my own grandfather who was born in the 1900's  is definitely not registered)
Have you looked for  her *father on the 1901 census in England or Wales to see  if he was there in England in 1901, to find out where he was born?  (* I'm guessing you have her marriage cert with her father's name on it and occupation, if not , I would get that cert first if I was you )Do you know if she had any older siblings?

 If you list the details you do have about  her - for example her name and her  given father's name, his occupation , any relevant witnesses on her marriage cert , any siblings names you know about  and about dates of them etc- you never know , maybe  there'll be an off chance some of the rootschatters may be able to find something ,or maybe find her father.

Hope that is of  some help, good luck 

[Tees]

Hi Shotb1

I would have to concur with what Cell had suggested to you.

May I suggest one more thing? Try to find your grandmother's family in 1901 Census first as it will narrow the searches greatly especially if it is common Irish name & surname. Do post the details on her family here--a Rootschatter or I will help you in locating the census details for you.

Try to ask your Dad for much information as he can give you or any elderly relative--I am sure they will be glad of help and able to pinpoint where she was born and when.

If your grandmother had passed away, it is possible her death certificate will shed some information on her birthdate and where she was born (it often is great help if you are American, Scottish, and Australian--I think Canadian as well). If she died in England or Wales, then it is possible to have this information if she died after 1969.

For the cheaper option, you would do very well if you were to order from the GRO (Roscommon, Ireland) as it covered the whole island's records up to 1922 and after 1922, only the records from Ireland itself (Eire).

Kind regards

Tees

[BrianS]

Thanks for your replies 

I can give some brief details of her life as I only know a rough outline which is not that helpful. She died at a young age and most people that knew anything about her are dead  . My grandad (now deceased) was only 5 when she died.

Her name at birth would have been Gladys Mary Sellars, died in 1937 at the age of 30 (deceased as Gladys Shotton in Northumberland). Her father was William. She could have been born in 1906 / 1907. She definately had Irish family though.

There was a Gladys May Sellars born in Gateshead in 1906 but the GRO rejected my reference check as it did not match. Could the spelling of the name have been incorrect on the birth cert or index??

That is all I have so far unfortunately. It really would be nice to find out a bit more as she has disappeared without a trace.

Thanks

[Tees]

Hi Shotb1

I overlooked the fact this was for your great grandmother. The whole time I thought it was for your granny!  Should pay a close attention.

Anyway, now--I can see how difficult it is. I took a peek at the census 1901 and see how numerous Sellars there were!

Even in Northemberland. What can I suggest is that you get in with a wonderful and kind rootschatter named "Michael Dixon" on this site--he is quite knowledgeable when it comes to this county. And he knows a lot about the Irish, too.

And I think you will have more success if you are able to locate her marriage record at one of the churches-if you know where she was married in and the records will tell you her parents' names.
I hope it is not C of E because the records are simply like the certificates we got from the GRO.

Also, another matter to consider is that we may do not know her actual birth name. I have some problems in locating few of my ancestors because they were given different names at their births whereas we know them by other names!

From the censuses I saw recently, William Sellars is too common. It would be greatly helpful if we have her mother's name so this is our best bet in identifying a correct record. William can be used as a middle name but your great granny probably knew her father as a William but did not know his full name. Another angle to ponder on!

Have you looked up on your great-grandfather Shotton to see where his family was in 1901. Sometimes it can help us to know where the Shottons were.

Let me know if I can do anything for you. Best wishes for your quest in finding her.

Kind regards

Tees

[Valda]

They may have rejected the birth certificate on the grounds of the difference in middle name Mary versus May - the two though can sometimes be interchangeable. On the 1901 census there was a Sellars family with Irish connections in Gateshead.

1901 census RG13 4760 folio 144
83 Durham Road Gateshead
William Sellars 30 Head Married Coal miner Hewer Duckinfield Cheshire
Esther Sellars 30  Wife Married Ireland
William Sellars 9  Son Ireland
Annie Sellars 6  Daughter Ireland
Valentine Sellars 4  Son Ireland
Robert Sellars 1  Son Gateshead Durham

However the birth of Robert is spelt Sellers.

Births Dec 1899
Sellers  Robert    Gateshead  10a 921

The family are definitely Sellars on the census. Does the occupation tally with Glady's father's occupation on her marriage? Were any of the witnesses Sellars?

Regards

Valda

[Tees]

Hi Shotb1

Valda have good points as well.

I think it would be most helpful if you were to put the details from her marriage certificate on this post.

Especially the occupation of her father's and witnesses.

Let me ask a kind contact of mine to see if he can come up with some information on your Gladys May.

Kind regards

Tees

PS Valda, how do we know if this family you found (I saw it, too) is hers?

[BrianS]

Thanks very much for the that post Valda.

On her marriage cert her fathers occupation was listed as Coal worker.
Also the witnesses were Roy Sellars & Elizabeth Sellars.

Checking the death registers last night there was also an Esther Sellars died in the Morpeth district in 1932 at the age of 62 so that may well be the same Esther from the census.

Thanks for your help