Georgie Porgie..kissed the girls &.......!

[Kimberley]

George ROBERTS born 24 July 1848,Manchester.Birth cert gives mother as Maria ROBERTS,Bootle Street,Browns Square,Manchester (Deansgate)

Baptism at Manchester Cathedral on 13th August 1848, records show a George ROBERTS with parents named Thomas & Maria ROBERTS..with  date of birth 24th July 1848 !

George ROBERTS emigrated from England on May 13th 1877 with wife Sarah Ann and three children.

The only record of marriage I can find is a marriage of
George ROBERTS 23 'book keeper' of Ashton under Lyne son of George ROBERTS 'book keeper' and a Sarah Ann HENRY 19 'spinster' of Ashton under Lyne, daughter of Henry HENRY 'smith'.Date of marriage 8th October 1871 at St Peter's Church,Ashton under Lyne,County of Lancaster.
Witnessses to this marriage were William DARLINGTON  & Thomas TONKS.

Lookup for George ROBERTS & Sarah Ann Roberts nee HENRYor HARRISON in 1851/1861/1871 ...or
George ROBERTS 'may' have been employed with railways in places listed below !!

Allegedly with London & North Western Railway Company for 10 years from a boy (possibly aged 13 to age 23) in Manchester & Liverpool.Then for a period of approx 19 months with Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway and then for six (6) years with Manchester,Sheffield & Lincolnshire Railway.
That's about 18 years with railways prior to emigrating to Australia in May 1877.
Lookup request for a George ROBERTS or his wife Sarah Ann HARRISON or HENRY that fits description please....?

Found two birth certs for possible children:
Thomas ROBERTS b 10 Sept 1872 (reg Chorlton Ardwick 11 Oct 1872)..
& Elizabeth ROBERTS born 18 Sept 1873 (reg 11 March 1874)

Both baptisms were at St Matthews Ardwick with parents shown as George & Sarah Ann ROBERTS formerly HARRISON of 5 Railway View, Ardwick !

Only problem is b/c of Thomas ROBERTS shows mothers former name as HENRY & b/c of Elizabeth ROBERTS mothers former name shown as HARRISON.
Help !

[Dave Francis]

Hmmm.  Interesting and suspicious that George seems to have acquired a father between his birth registration and his baptism.

This one looks possible ...

1851 Manchester (Deansgate) Lancashire
HO107/2227 folio 437 page 44

27 Back Newberry St
Catherine Roberts, head, mar, <76?>, housekeeper, Wales
Sopha Kay, daur, widr, 41, silk weaver, Wales
Maria Roberts, daur, u, 35, silk weaver, Wales
George Roberts, grandson, 2, Manchester Lancashire

[Kimberley]

Hmmm.  Interesting and suspicious that George seems to have acquired a father between his birth registration and his baptism.

This one looks possible ...

1851 Manchester (Deansgate) Lancashire
HO107/2227 folio 437 page 44

27 Back Newberry St
Catherine Roberts, head, mar, <76?>, housekeeper, Wales
Sopha Kay, daur, widr, 41, silk weaver, Wales
Maria Roberts, daur, u, 35, silk weaver, Wales
George Roberts, grandson, 2, Manchester Lancashire

Thanks Dave !

Yes, it does look like a possibilty !

1871 census (RG10/3842/62/6)..features Joseph ROBERTS and his married sister Sophia MORRISON.This Sophia died 24 April 1877 at West Derby and I have "original" funeral card and a d/c for her.

1871 census states Joseph ROBERTS born Holywell Flint.Also his sister Sophia MORRISON born Holywell Flintshire.Could only find a Joseph ROBERTS bap 11th March 1827 son of Thomas & Catherine of Holywell.No bap record for a Sophia ROBERTS circa 1809 in Holywell !! Joseph ROBERTS' m/c to Ann Joule DAVENPORT in Manchester 1849,gave his father as Thomas ROBERTS 'contractor'.Seeking link with Maria,Joseph & Sophia ROBERTS..hence George ROBERTS (born 1848) son of Maria.

Would be very convenient if 1851 record fitted.Unable to find a marriage for a Sophia ROBERTS to a KAY or HAY or a marriage of 'widow' KAY/HAY to a John MORRISON.

Did find a bap for a Maria ROBERTS 1815 Holywell,Flintshire dau of Thomas & Catherine of Holywell and a marriage of a Thomas ROBERTS to Catherine JONES widow in 1814,Holywell Flintshire.

Wonder if Sophia was daughter of Catherine JONES ?

Sophia MORRISON'S husband John MORRISON is still at West Derby address (24 Dodge Street) in 1881 with the daughter (Alice REID) of his brother in law, Joseph ROBERTS !!!
Phewww !

[Dave Francis]

You'll like this one 

Working on the theory that I found Maria (unmarried) in 1851 with George, can I find them in 1861 under the name Roberts?
Answer: No

Possibility - Maria got married in the meantime, so they are listed under a different surname.

In fact, I think I've found them ....

1851 Manchester (Ancoats) Lancashire
HO107/2225 folio 111 page 42
Silk Street
William Darlington, head, 50, shoemaker, <Nantwich?>
Sarah, wife, 48, <illegible>
William, son, <illegible>

Marriage registration
William DARLINGTON
June qtr 1860
Manchester vol 8d p 247
Matching ref: Maria ROBERTS

1861 Manchester (Deansgate) Lancashire
RG9/2941 folio 101 page 39
11 Back Newberry Street
William Darlington, head, 59, shoemaker, Nantwich
Maria do., wife, 45, <reeler?>, Holywell Flints
William do., son, 21, < ? >, Manchester Lancashire
George do., son, 13, nipper, Manchester Lancashire

Note the address and note that William Darlington has acquired a son called George ...

[Dave Francis]

And here we are again in 1871 ...

1871 Manchester (Deansgate) Lancashire
11 Back Newberry Street
William Darlington, head, 70, cordwainer, Nantwich Cheshire
Maria do., wife, 50, do. wife, Wales
George do., son, 22, w[are]'house clerk, Manc Lancashire
Edwd Barratt, visitor, mar, 41, cane cutter, Manc Lancashire
Thos Horsefield, visitor, widr, 62, laborer ironmonger, Manc Lancashire

Can I find 'George Darlington' in any later Census?
Answer: Nope!

[Kimberley]

You'll like this one 

Working on the theory that I found Maria (unmarried) in 1851 with George, can I find them in 1861 under the name Roberts?
Answer: Nope !

Possibility  !!! - Maria may have married in the meantime, so they are listed under a different surname.

In fact, I think I've found them ....

1851 Manchester (Ancoats) Lancashire
HO107/2225 folio 111 page 42
Silk Street
William Darlington, head, 50, shoemaker, <Nantwich?>
Sarah, wife, 48, <illegible>
William, son, <illegible>

Marriage registration
William DARLINGTON
June qtr 1860
Manchester vol 8d p 247
Matching ref: Maria ROBERTS

1861 Manchester (Deansgate) Lancashire
RG9/2941 folio 101 page 39
11 Back Newberry Street
William Darlington, head, 59, shoemaker, Nantwich
Maria do., wife, 45, <reeler?>, Holywell Flints
William do., son, 21, < ? >, Manchester Lancashire
George do., son, 13, nipper, Manchester Lancashire

Note the address and note that William Darlington has acquired a son called George ...

Thank you Dave
I think you have indeed found marriage (8d 247) June 1860 !
William Darlington 57 'widower' shoemaker of 11 Bk Newberry St & Maria Roberts 44 'spinster' of 12 Little John Street dau of Thomas Roberts 'wellsinker'
The fact 1861 census shows a George Darlington 13 yrs & 1871 census George Darlington is about 22 could mean he was infact George born George Roberts on 24th July 1848 and for convenience purposes in 1861 & 1871 censuses they called him George Darlington !!!!!
Although William Darlington was living in Silk Street with his 1st wife and son William in 1851,and possibly Maria Roberts at 27 Back Newberry Street,Manchester in 1851......11 Back Newberry Street is not too far away in 1860 (date of William D & Maria R marriage)
I have a death cert for a Maria Darlington 81 'widow of William Darlington a shoemaker of Ardwick' Maria died 26th July 1895 at Union Workhouse,Withington USD. ?
Assuming all this is the case could George have reverted back to George ROBERTS and married a Sarah Ann HENRY on 8th Oct 1871 at St Peter's Church,Ashton under Lyne .This m/c (8d 903) states he was a 23 yr old bachelor 'book keeper' and son of George Roberts 'book keeper' and Sarah Ann HENRY 19 'spinster' dau of Henry HENRY 'smith'....witnesses to marriage...William Darlington & Thomas Tonks !!!!!!

Could the birth or George & Sarah Ann Roberts' first child Thomas Roberts on 10th Sept 1872 (8c 632 Chorlton) at 5 Railway View,Ardwick be the right one Sarah Ann's former name appears to be HENRY on b/c and George Roberts is recorded as 'book keeper' on 1st childs b/c ??
Second (2nd) child Elizabeth born 18th Sept 1873 at 5 Railway View,Ardwick father George Roberts 'book keeper' and mother Sarah Ann Roberts formerly HARRISON ?? Why the change of mothers maiden name ?? 3rd child George Edwin Roberts born 19 January 1876 Ardwick also has HARRISON as mothers former name !!

George Roberts, wife Sarah Ann & 3 kids all set sail for Australia in May 1877 on ship "Daylight" as assisted immigrants.

Your valued input appreciated Dave.Can not find a marriage for a George Roberts to a Sarah Ann Harrison !!George & Sarah Ann Roberts had another 12 kids in Oz and the b/c's all differ in mothers maiden name ie. some Henry & some Harrrison !! This is continued in childrens m/c's & d/c's...could the confusion stem from the first 3 b/c's in Ardwick
Children Thomas & Elizabeth ROBERTS both baptised 21st December 1873 at St Matthews,Ardwick ! Parish baptism records parents were George & Sarah Ann ROBERTS of 5 Railway View.
George is recorded as a 'clerk' !!

[Dave Francis]

Hi again!

I think the idea's entirely plausible.  George was illegitimate  - something his mother managed to cover up when he was christened, but not when registering his birth.

He covered it up as well when he married Sarah Ann.  (His father might have been a Thomas or George or who knows, he could even have been William Darlington!)

Following his mother's marriage, George took (or was given) the name Darlington for respectability but used his proper name on marriage and, presumably, thereafter.  And of course his step-father or, possibly, step-brother was one of witnesses.

As regards his occupation, in 1871 George Darlington was a warehouse clerk which might be construed as 'book keeper'.

Fits together quite nicely doesn't it!

You may have found Maria in the Chorlton Union Workhouse already:

1881 Witherington (Chorlton Union Workhouse) Lancashire
RG11/3893 folio 101 page 41
...
Maria Darlington, pauper, w[idow], 67, cotton reeler [crossed through], Holywell
...
Can't see her in 1891

[Dave Francis]

Well, at least I've found Thomas Tonks!

1871 Ashton under Lyne, Lancashire
RG10/4076 20 page 34

"Little Moss"
William Darlington, head, 31, warehouse man, Manchester Lancashire
Elizabeth do., wife, 28, Liverpool Lancashire
Harry do., son, 6, Manchester Lancashire
William do., son, 1, Manchester Lancashire
... next door ...
Thomas Tonks, head, 47, basket maker, Repton Derby
Sarah Ann., wife, 44, Bromsgrove Worcester
Mather Porrell, visitor, 7, scholar, Dudley Worcester

I'll have a think about the Harrison/Henry problem ...

[Kimberley]

Well, at least I've found Thomas Tonks!

1871 Ashton under Lyne, Lancashire
RG10/4076 20 page 34

"Little Moss"
William Darlington, head, 31, warehouse man, Manchester Lancashire
Elizabeth do., wife, 28, Liverpool Lancashire
Harry do., son, 6, Manchester Lancashire
William do., son, 1, Manchester Lancashire
... next door ...
Thomas Tonks, head, 47, basket maker, Repton Derby
Sarah Ann., wife, 44, Bromsgrove Worcester
Mather Porrell, visitor, 7, scholar, Dudley Worcester

I'll have a think about the Harrison/Henry problem ...

Thanks again Dave !
I think we are singing from the same page !!
Gee,this is so frustrating,this family research caper !
I have one (1) thing that is 100%..the rest is running around in circles !!
Amongst Georgies old possessions is one thing ! A funeral/rememberence card for a Sophia MORRISON died 24 April 1877 intered 26th Anfield Cemetery (Think near Liverpool) Have ordered her d/c and it confirms that she died in presence of husband John MORRISON at 24 Dodge Street,West Derby.
Sophia Morrison is recorded as sister to a Joseph Roberts in 1871 census and also with husband.I reckon Joseph is also a brother to Maria Roberts (Joe bap 1827 &  Maria bap 1815 both to a Thomas & Catherine of Holywell)Joseph Roberts married in 1849 to Ann Joule DAVENPORT and had 3 kids,Alice,Frederick William (born Cheshire 1861) & Joseph b 1860?(Alice was still at 24 Dodge Street,West Derby in 1881).Joseph jnr married in about 1882 to Frances Rachel HALLIDAY and had 2 sons...guess what he called them ? Yes,Frederick William & Joseph.This little family were heading to Australia on ship "Kapunda" in Dec 1886 and all drowned on voyage in Jan 1887 with approx 300 others.Maybe Joseph was heading to the colonies to catch up with cousin Georgie !!
So the link with Sophia MORRISON (funeral card) has not been sorted yet..just how/if she is infact tied to Maria & Joseph snr.
Why would Georgie have a funeral card of someone by name of Sophia MORRISON...is it the Sophia Kay/Hay living at 27 Bk Newberry Street in 1851 ??
Plot thickens !! Georgie & Sarah Ann ROBERTS produced many more kids in Oz..one John Arthur Roberts was born in Dec 1888 Australia.He joined Royal Naval Reserve in UK..don't ask me why !
He gave nok as his brother who was in AIF (Australian Imperial Forces) during WW1 and his "aunt" Mrs Elizabeth OPENSHAW of 29 Church Lane,Harpehey? Manchester.Turns out 'Aunty" was born Elizabeth HARRISON circa 1857 in Manchester and married a William TINKER in 1877 in Bradford Lancs.William died in 1899 and Elizabeth remarried Ormrod Openshaw in 1902.Elizabeth died circa 1930.She was advised of the death/drowning of John Arthur ROBERTS by Royal Navy in Feb 1917.John Arthur ROBERTS was an Engine Room Articifer (ERA) on submarine K13 and he drowned on it on 29th Jan 1917.Just how Elizabeth OPENSHAW formerly TINKER nee HARRISON is connected to John Arthur ROBERTS or for that matter Georgie or Sarah Ann Roberts..it's anyone's guess.Elizabeth Tinker features in 1881 census at 14 Collyhurst Street,Manchester and stated on her m/c in 1877 her father was James HARRISON 'warper'.
Haven't found her b/c yet ! Nor b/c of a Sarah Ann HENRY or HARRISON...to link both Elizabeth & Sarah Ann somehow...! Have I confused you Dave ?Maybe Georgie was trying to cover his tracks and due to being illigit..did a very good job !
By coincedence a William HARRISON is at 5 Railway View,Ardwick in 1871 census.Can not link him to either Sarah Ann or Elizabeth !
A real mystery ah !!!
Thanks for your help though !