William Williams born Wales.....?

[alllegs]

Hi everyone,

I have the marriage certificate and the 1891 census details of my great great grandparents but am at a complete loss as tho where to look next in Wales for my great great grandfather William Williams.

Here is what I know...

1891 census.

RG12/4017 folio 4 pg 1

3 Clarendon Street, South Bank, Middlesbrough.

John Clark and family
William Williams, 28, boarder, Shearman, born Wales
Jane Thomas, 18, servant, born, Witton Park, Durham.

Then the marriage certificate for Williams Williams and Jane Thomas on 28th November 1891 at Middlesbrough Registry Office, he was aged 25 and she 19.  He was an Iron worker and they were both living at the same address, 50 Wood Street, Grangetown, Eston.

Williams father was James Williams a General Labourer.
Witnesses were Thomas Lewis and William Jackson.

I do know that William died in 1895 and was buried in Eston cemetery aged 32 on October 23rd 1895.

Now my problem occurs firstly with the 1891 census - William was born in Wales.....where in Wales??

Also the ages on the census, the marrige certificateand burial record for William differ by 3 years so narrowing down a birth for William Williams somewhere in Wales is like searching for a needle in a haystack.

I haven't been able to find William on any earlier censuses with his father, neither do I have his birth details.

Any ideas what i should do next?

TIA
Legs
xxxx

[Peterej]

Hi Legs

A toughie!

May I suggest a search on William in the free 1881 census provided by LDS and put James as the head of family in the hope that William was at home. Then see if any names out of only 33 possibles (5year age spread) fit any names you have come across.

You never know your luck and you need a little. Let us know if you are lucky and if not it may mean a long look at the 1871.

Peter

[Shropshire Lass]

Hi Legs

How about this -

I looked on the 1871 in Wales for an 1863 birth.  There is only one with a father called James.

This family are in the 1881 with a son William who is a Tailor's apprentice.  That's no good, I thought - in the 1891 he's a shearman (assuming that shearman meant sheep shearer) but it doesn't.  A shearman is a specialist cloth cutter.

Father James is given as a Labourer with 10 acres of land in the 1871 and a Farmer of 11 acres in the 1881.

Refs are 1871 - RG10, piece 5503, folio 29, p 5,
and 1881 - RG11, piece 5432, folio 10, p 14.

This is assuming that 1863 is his correct birthdate and that he was at home on both the census dates but it might give you a start.

Good luck,
Monica

[osprey]

  I'd assume that the census and burial record ages are correct. He probably removed a few years to make him nearer his wife's age for the marriage - not a rare happening, it appears. The shearman foiled me. I'd found the same family as Monica and thought it a good match until I saw tailor. Have had a look for the family in 1891 and found them RG12/4547 folio 51 pg 8, but no William around. For 1861 the ref is RG9/4145 folio 64 pg 9, and there's a stepson to help trace the wife.James had many more acres at that time, wonder what happened? Jane's birthplace isn't very clear, but looks like Cilrhedyn - border of Carms and Pembs. Hope some of this helps.

[Shropshire Lass]

I agree with osprey about the possible reduction of William's age on the marriage certificate which is why I looked for 1863.  An 18 year old girl marrying a 28 year old man might have caused some comment.  It would still be worth looking at a range of dates just in case there is another William with a father James.

The occupation given on the marriage certificate for James - general labourer - is a problem because James still lists himself in the 1891 as a farmer, but with no acreage specified this time.  It's more common for the father's occupation to be inflated on the marriage certificate than downgraded.  As it seems that the acreage James owned reduced over the years, perhaps James was clinging to the old times and William was being realistic?

Also the change of career for William being the 1891 census and the marriage - would someone change from an apprenticed career to a job in the ironworks?  Would the ironworks be a better paying job?

Let us know how you get on -
Monica

[alllegs]

Thank you all for your time and help, I really do appreciate it.

The only thing that still confuses me about the James and William you found is the occupation bit....

This is from the old occupations website....Shearman / Sherman  1) Skilled worker who sheared the nap from cloth - also Cropper 2) Cutter of metal. 

I presumed that William would have bee a cutter of metal as he worked in the Iron industry.... And as they were living in South Bank (census) and Grangetown (marriage cert) I would expect that William would be working in the Iron works as that was the main source of employment in that area at that time.
However William may have moved to the north east for a better life, I'm not sure whether working in the iron works paid more than tailoring.  Poor chap only survived another 4 years after his marriage - he should have stayed in the fresh air in Wales!

The 1881 census you found - is that in Wales or England?

Thank you again.

Love
Legs
xxxx

[WelshGen]

Hiyah Legs, how are you getting on with with this search?
I have found in the 1881 census a William with father James details as follows:

James Wms, m, 39, Ribley, Gloucs, Pudler or Forgeman(Iron)
Elizabeth Wms, m, 30, Welsh Hay, Brecknock
William Wms, (rel son) u, 17, Pontypool, Monmouth, forgeman (iron)

There are also 4 younger sisters and two younger sons
They are living at West Street, Trevethin, Monmouth

[alllegs]

Hi WelshGen,

Thank you for looking for me!

I'm not getting anywhere at all with this search!!!!  But what you have found does seem to fit the bill rather well doesn't it.


I will definitely persue these census details further as they are the best fit.

Thank you again
Legs
xxxx