Author Topic: Have Enoch and Elizabeth Payne disappeared from all records? (Post 1843)  (Read 5023 times)

Offline andycadman

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Have Enoch and Elizabeth Payne disappeared from all records? (Post 1843)
« on: Sunday 17 December 06 19:31 GMT (UK) »
My great grand father was called Enoch Payne, so too where his father and grandfather. 

The earlier Payne’s lived around Burbage near Hinckley (Leicestershire) during the 1700’s. Most were baptised at the Great Presbyterian Meeting Place in that town. The first of the three “Enochs” in my line was baptised at this place in 1813 although he was born in 1808.  However, after much research and checking I find him in Derbyshire about 1830 where he marries an Elizabeth Hanson (born abt. 1808) of Horsley Woodhouse at a place nearby called Smalley, (ironically both villages are just a few miles away from were I now live).  I think the reason why he was here at this time is connected with framework knitting perhaps?  Their first Child Mary, was baptised at the nearby Marlpool Independent in 1833 continuing the nonconformist tradition of this branch of the family.

In the 1841 Census I find them in Leicester (Slater Street) with his occupation a Trimmer. They have a child here called Enoch who dies at about a year old. They have another boy also called Enoch born February 1843, (My great, great grandfather).  I found him in the 1851 Census at Shepshed, Leics., with a  John Payne who I know now was his uncle (so where was Enoch’s father and mother?).  I have been unable to find either in the 1851 or 1861 census. Enoch (born in 1843) marries an Amelia Francis Smith in Nov 1864 in Shepshed. (It provides evidence that is father was a dyer and trimmer and was deceased).  I know much of the Payne history from then.

My problem is what happened to Enoch Payne (born 1808 and his wife Elizabeth after the birth of my second great grandfather in Leicester in 1843?  Did they both die? Did one die and the other remarry? I have checked many marriage and death/burial records without any success, (No evidence of either in the 1851or 1861 census).  If anyone can help me solve this mystery that has troubled me for a long, long time I would really appreciate it.
The main names that I am researching into at the moment are Cadman,(originating from Bulkington, Warwickshire), Smedley, (Leicestershire and Derbyshire), Paynes (Leicestershire, Yorkshire and Derbyshire) and Udall - you will also find several other names on my web page. I look forward to E-Mails from anyone who would like to share or talk about our family history.

Offline Cal241

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Re: Have Enoch and Elizabeth Payne disappeared from all records? (Post 1843)
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 17 December 06 19:52 GMT (UK) »
Hi
There is an Elizabeth Payne born Hinkley aged 55 widow in 1851
Living 5 Castle Street Hinkley
With a daughter Elizabeth aged 16 and a visitor Eliza Smith aged 16
This Elizabeth is noted as a Pauper formerly a seamer

 Could this be her I know the age is a bit out though  ???

Cal  8)
UK Census Transcriptions are Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk                Bigg-Sheppey/West Ham<br />Dodd - Cheshire <br />Ingram - Dorset, London, Morlaix, Australia, California<br />Kerfoot - Warrington, Pemberton, St Asaph<br />McKinneley - N Ireland, Liverpool <br />Marshall - Midlothian, Cheshire<br />Morrish-Chelsea<br />Shiel - Melrose<br />Woodhall- Liverpool, Shropshire/Staffordshire<br />Dagliesh- Melrose<br />Stevenson - Melrose<br />Smith & Jones! Scotland & Wales

Offline jan57

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Re: Have Enoch and Elizabeth Payne disappeared from all records? (Post 1843)
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 17 December 06 19:56 GMT (UK) »
 There are  3  records  for  a   Elizabeth  Payne   death in 1845,  1846 and 1850   on Ancestry in Leicester


Offline andycadman

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Re: Have Enoch and Elizabeth Payne disappeared from all records? (Post 1843)
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 17 December 06 20:05 GMT (UK) »
Many thanks for the replies.

I don't think it was the Elizabeth Payne born Hinkley as this Elizabeth was born in Derbyshire.

I am unsure of the deaths but they are unlikely as I have been unable to find a remarriage for Enoch, but he may have never remarried.

I have found some marriages for an Elizabeth Payne in Leicester but all were the wrong Elizabeth.

Andy
The main names that I am researching into at the moment are Cadman,(originating from Bulkington, Warwickshire), Smedley, (Leicestershire and Derbyshire), Paynes (Leicestershire, Yorkshire and Derbyshire) and Udall - you will also find several other names on my web page. I look forward to E-Mails from anyone who would like to share or talk about our family history.


Offline Cal241

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Re: Have Enoch and Elizabeth Payne disappeared from all records? (Post 1843)
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 17 December 06 20:43 GMT (UK) »
 Hi

You are probably right about the Elizabeth I found!!

I have only found one Enoch (apart from the Enock (yes with a k ) in March 1842)

The other Enoch I found died in Warminster in March Q 1849 8 339.
Is there any family history in Warminster??

Found a few Elizabeths,one is and Elizabeth Thurmain Payne is that of any interest as a name?

Cal  8)
UK Census Transcriptions are Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk                Bigg-Sheppey/West Ham<br />Dodd - Cheshire <br />Ingram - Dorset, London, Morlaix, Australia, California<br />Kerfoot - Warrington, Pemberton, St Asaph<br />McKinneley - N Ireland, Liverpool <br />Marshall - Midlothian, Cheshire<br />Morrish-Chelsea<br />Shiel - Melrose<br />Woodhall- Liverpool, Shropshire/Staffordshire<br />Dagliesh- Melrose<br />Stevenson - Melrose<br />Smith & Jones! Scotland & Wales

Offline andycadman

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Re: Have Enoch and Elizabeth Payne disappeared from all records? (Post 1843)
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 17 December 06 20:49 GMT (UK) »
Cal,

The Enoch with a "K" is the first Enoch who died aged one.

There is no family history in Warminster.

My Elizabeth was born in Horsley in Derbyshire and that is the key.

Andy
The main names that I am researching into at the moment are Cadman,(originating from Bulkington, Warwickshire), Smedley, (Leicestershire and Derbyshire), Paynes (Leicestershire, Yorkshire and Derbyshire) and Udall - you will also find several other names on my web page. I look forward to E-Mails from anyone who would like to share or talk about our family history.

Offline Cal241

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Re: Have Enoch and Elizabeth Payne disappeared from all records? (Post 1843)
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 17 December 06 20:53 GMT (UK) »
ermm another brickwall it would seem!!! (but you have probably realised this already!!)

I must admit I have it with a few of mine where I can't find th deaths but I know they existed..... don't know why when the BMD on several sites is supposed to be complete ???

Cal  8)



UK Census Transcriptions are Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk                Bigg-Sheppey/West Ham<br />Dodd - Cheshire <br />Ingram - Dorset, London, Morlaix, Australia, California<br />Kerfoot - Warrington, Pemberton, St Asaph<br />McKinneley - N Ireland, Liverpool <br />Marshall - Midlothian, Cheshire<br />Morrish-Chelsea<br />Shiel - Melrose<br />Woodhall- Liverpool, Shropshire/Staffordshire<br />Dagliesh- Melrose<br />Stevenson - Melrose<br />Smith & Jones! Scotland & Wales

Offline andycadman

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Re: Have Enoch and Elizabeth Payne disappeared from all records? (Post 1843)
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 17 December 06 21:04 GMT (UK) »
Many thanks for your help Cal.

I am just looking for some direction with this probelm.

It has certainly been troubling me for some time.

Are there any ideas/inspiration anywhere?

Best Wishes,

Andy
The main names that I am researching into at the moment are Cadman,(originating from Bulkington, Warwickshire), Smedley, (Leicestershire and Derbyshire), Paynes (Leicestershire, Yorkshire and Derbyshire) and Udall - you will also find several other names on my web page. I look forward to E-Mails from anyone who would like to share or talk about our family history.

Offline liverpool annie

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Re: Have Enoch and Elizabeth Payne disappeared from all records? (Post 1843)
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 17 December 06 21:12 GMT (UK) »

Well without sounding "flip" .......... ( we sometimes need all the help we can get !!  ::) ::)  )

if you REALLY get stuck .... try St Anthony !!  ;)

My Aunt used to say ........... !!

Something's lost and cannot be found
Please St Anthony ............  look around

I did that for one of my brickwalls ..... and guess what ??  :)

Just a thought !!

Annie  :) :) :)
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