Author Topic: Look up please Tillman  (Read 21401 times)

Offline Richard Knott

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Re: Look up please Tillman
« Reply #18 on: Monday 19 February 07 15:12 GMT (UK) »
Til(l)man is mentioned for three people on the marriage certificate, and is repeated on the birth certificate, so it seems likely, although mistranscriptions on censuses for Tillman/Tiltman seem very possible.

There is only one Annie Tilman in freebmd and only one in the censuses, which makes it more likely that they are the same person, especially as the Elizabeth is only hearsay. Buying the birth certificate seems sensible; I don't think it will give James as the father, but it may give Rose as the mother.

The Sevenoaks birth entry is followed by a long line of children born to Lewis Charles Tillman and Harriet Eliza Munt (m Sep 1886): Martha Eliza (1886); Florry Elizabeth (1888); Charles Lewis (1889); Frederick Thomas (1891); Francis William (1893); Edward David (1896). Those in bold represent namings after direct ancestors (his parents were Francis and Martha; hers were David and Harriet). It seems odd that the only name that does not appear is Harriet - both the mother's and the grandmother's name. Perhaps Annie Harriet was the illegitimate daughter of Harriet. (It's not clear why she should be called Tilman, as Harriet wasn't married to Lewis until later).
Interestingly the next Sevenoaks baptism is for Rose Jessie Tilman (but she is clearly not the witness).

I have been unable to prove a link between this Annie and Jane.
Jane Ann Tilman married in Mar 1865 (to John Kettle, although his and her name appear on different pages); he dies in 1867; she becomes housekeeper to a widower, John Lloyd, and his son; she marries him; they don't have any children.
According to censuses and the IGI Jane (1836) is the daughter of Isaac and Harriet Tilman, with Mary Ann (1822), Eliza (1829), Sophia (1831) and George (1845) as siblings. Isaac was born in Leigh in 1799.

Lewis Tilman is the son of Francis Tilman (b 1838), brother to Isaac (b1832), both of whom were also born in Leigh as well. My guess is that their father (Samuel) is the brother of Jane's father, but I haven't tried to prove it. Even if true, it still puts Jane as Annie's grandfather's cousin - hardly very close.

And, of course, your Annie may not be this Annie.

It seems the only thing we can be sure about is Rose. Why was she signing the register (who else signed?)? Widowed mother? Single mother? Close relation? It would seem odd if it was someone who married into the family (such as Rose Jennings m Walter Tilman 1902), but most of those born Rose Tilman are either married or dead by 1907: Rosetta (b 1857 Tonbridge) marries in 1882; Rose (b 1877 Tonbridge) dies shortly afterwards. It may be worth looking a little closer at Rose (b 1884 Newnham/Basingstoke) as her grandfather is a James Tilman (bc1821) but I can't see any Annies.

Sorry not to have found anything definite. Buy the certificate!

Richard
All the families I am researching are listed on the main page here:
www.64regencyancestors.com

Census: Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Naomi Appleby

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Re: Look up please Tillman
« Reply #19 on: Monday 19 February 07 16:53 GMT (UK) »
Hi everyone who has helped me with this one :)

I have gone and ordered the birth cert for Annie Harriet Tillman, should be with me later on in the week. Then we can see who her relatives are and if she is the right one :D

Valda, it did cross my mind about Tillman/ Tiltman. Sitting on that one for now.

Regards
Nai
Doust - Sussex
Tillman - Sussex?
Lee - Middlesex
Peacock - Yorkshire
Clavert - Yorkshire

Offline Valda

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Re: Look up please Tillman
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday 20 February 07 09:15 GMT (UK) »
Did your grandmother have any siblings? A later birth certificate might be helpful to see what name Annie gave on any subsequent child's birth.

Annie Harriet's only claim to being your great grandmother hinges on the age given at your great grandmother's marriage. It all depends whether that was a moveable feast or not. Moved up to make it 21 and the age of consent, moved down to make it more compatible with a potentially younger husband.

Have you any information on when approximately and where your great grandmother died to try to establish her name and age at death?

Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Naomi Appleby

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Re: Look up please Tillman
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday 27 February 07 16:56 GMT (UK) »
Hi Folks,

Well the birth cert of Annie Harriet Tillman arrived today.

She was born on the 13th Sept 1885 in Otford, no father mentioned. Her mother is Ellen Tillman a domestic servant, living in Otford.

I am not sure which way to head with this one.

Regards
Naomi
Doust - Sussex
Tillman - Sussex?
Lee - Middlesex
Peacock - Yorkshire
Clavert - Yorkshire


Offline lizdb

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Re: Look up please Tillman
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 27 February 07 17:30 GMT (UK) »
I would follow up the ideas Valda had
i.e
1) Did your grandmother have any siblings - if so what name did Annie give on their birth certs?

and

2) When did Annie die? if you dont know exactly when do you know approx when, or can you narrow it down to a range of dates, so we can look for her death (Annie Lee). Later death certs give where born as well as when (some being more helpful than others depending on how much info the person registering the death knew about the deceased)
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Naomi Appleby

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Re: Look up please Tillman
« Reply #23 on: Tuesday 27 February 07 17:40 GMT (UK) »
Hi Lizdb,

Will look up for Annie's death, but I do know my grand mother had a sister called Rose. So will look into her death as well.

Thanks for your help

Regards
Naomi
Doust - Sussex
Tillman - Sussex?
Lee - Middlesex
Peacock - Yorkshire
Clavert - Yorkshire

Offline Richard Knott

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Re: Look up please Tillman
« Reply #24 on: Tuesday 27 February 07 22:28 GMT (UK) »
I think the arrival of Ellen is good news.

We are hoping to show that the Annie staying with Jane Lloyd (nee Tillman) in 1891 and 1901 is your Annie. This Jane (see earlier post) is the daughter of Isaac and Harriet Tilman.

In 1861 Harriet, a widow, is living with her granddaughter Ellen (aged 6; b Sep 1854 Malling). This Ellen remained an unmarried servant throughout her life, rising up to be a cook to a rector in 1891 (who took in fallen women?!) and a colonel in 1901. If she is your Ellen, then Jane would be Ellen's great-aunt. This does at least prove a link between an Ellen and an Annie.

(If you want another name to chase, Ellen is staying with Harriet Ayres in 1881 and is described as her niece, which can mean just about anything!).

Certainly not a proof, but grist to the mill.

Richard
All the families I am researching are listed on the main page here:
www.64regencyancestors.com

Census: Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Richard Knott

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Re: Look up please Tillman
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday 27 February 07 22:39 GMT (UK) »
As a minor addendum, Richard Ayers m Harriet Tillman  Sep 1863 Marylebone 1a 1013.
They are together in 1871 in Paddington.
R
All the families I am researching are listed on the main page here:
www.64regencyancestors.com

Census: Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline allibaker

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Re: Look up please Tillman
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday 28 February 07 19:25 GMT (UK) »
annie harriet tillman born 1885 bapt 22nd aug 1897 fawkham kent mothers name ellen tillman no father listed
hope that clears that one up?
regards
alli
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