Uniform Color

[atom12]

Yes, the guy on the left does look like Ordinance Corp 

If you look on the upper arms of both men that black triangle you can see should be blue in colour.  It is a sleeve badge worn by Brigade HQ personnel of some infantry divisions.  It is hard to make out the divisional flash above the triangle.

I still feel the badge of the soldier on the right is a proficiency badge for the light machine gun.

[harribobs]

He is not wearing a Tam o' Shanter (TOS), so he is not in a Scottish regiment. 

what is it then? it's not a beret, note the headband, you can't see if there's a pom-pom from that angle

looks like one to me

[themonsstar]

The one on the left as the 53rd (Welsh) Division sign a red 'W'

[themonsstar]

Its the General Service Cap  it was not a popular item of head-dress

[atom12]

what is it then? it's not a beret, note the headband, you can't see if there's a pom-pom from that angle

looks like one to me

I'm glad themonstar has pointed out that the headgear is the General Service Cap, which is  tailored in a different fashion to the Tam o' Shanter. The GS cap does not have a seam going all the way round the crown as does the TOS.

The headband of a TOS is stiff and higher set, it also has a padded crown interior.  Whereas the GS cap on the coloured picture is less substantial than a TOS.

The group photo that you posted shows 'classic' TOSs.   

ps: the pom-pom is a better known as a 'toorie'.

Anne

[scrimnet]

The chap on the left does appear to have a 53rd Div (Welsh) formation badge, and the three red arm of service strips denote the (3rd) junior brigade of that division. The Coloured field Service cap on the left...if it is as it appears could be a blue cap with yellow piping which would denote the Welch Regiment.

In 1944/5 the division were part of XXX (30) Corps...And 4th bn of the Welch regiment were in that div at that time....

But....the junior bn in the div were 2nd Monmouthshires, who wore a black CFSC with white piping...

But....the cap badge looks like Royal Welsh Fusiliers. which means the CFSC should be dark blue with light blue piping. The 6th bn were in the 3rd brigade, so that is a possibility...

As for the chap on the right with the apparent black backing to his cap badge, and the apparent black lanyard, I would like to say he is a Northampton, but they were with 5th Inf Div. As he has a LG proficiency badge on I would doubt he was an Engineer....

They are both wearing post 1944 "walking out dress" with open tailored (as per officers) collars, ties and shoes. The chap on the left wears 1940 patt BD and the one on the right 1937 pattern.

Is there any chance of a close up on the two chaps cap badges pse?? It could probably all be sorted  out then with a bit more certainty!!!.

[scrimnet]

Oh....and yes that is a General Service Cap....The reason most Regiments went into Coloured Field Service Caps...It was so awful!!!

[atom12]

  Great Stuff Scrimnet (Camouflage)

It is good that this thread has developed into a real interrogation of the facts.  

I discounted the Scottish thread, as the only badge that would fit with the image would be Cameron.  However, the badge was not big enough, then the head-dress was a 'no no'.  Thus, I thought the lanyard and the shape of the badge might be RE.  However, your contribution has been most informative.

[scrimnet]

   Thanks Atom......

I can see where you came from with the Camerons....

The more I look at the chap on the left...the more the badge says Royal Welsh Fusiliers....

Having looked for an Orbat of the Div, and found one....6th RWF is a very strong contender for chap on left...

Now, as for chap on right....