The Face of Britain

[jillruss]

Downside,

I thought the whole point was to identify what constitutes 'English'.

I haven't watched last night's programme (taped it again) but imagine it was about the Saxon and Danish element, as it was exploring the east coast. Celts last week. Surely we're most of us made up of elements of the lot (even  those people who say they have lived in X for generations can't be immune).

I have Scottish blood in me and was delighted to discover it because I've always felt an affinity with Scotland - especially with the east of Scotland, where - it turns out - my ancestors were from. I think this is the romantic in most of us, rather than hard and fast proof of our genetic heritage, but what's wrong with that? A little romance in the soul never hurts! I'm still English and - usually, but not always - proud of it!

English is Celt and Saxon and Norman and every other trace of humanity that has joined us here on this island since heaven knows when.

Jill

[downside]

Hi Jill

As you did not see last nights programme then you missed one of the important points they made.

There are two types of Vikings, Norwegian and Danish.  However, the so called Anglo-Saxon takeover of England comprised of a tribe called Jutes (form Jutland) who later became Danes, therefore it is impossible to tell whether someones DNA is linked to Anglo-Saxon DNA or later Danish Viking DNA as they are the same thing.  In last night's example they investigated the DNA of various Geordies most of whom thought they were descended from Vikings.  But the problem is that 75% of them turned out to have  Anglo-Saxon DNA and there isn't any method of distinguishing whether they are descended from Viking stock or not because Anglo-Saxon DNA includes Danish DNA.

downside

[Jean McGurn]

Jill's right by saying English. From an old school history book The New Groundwork of British History first printed in 1911 (my copy is reprinted in 1961) there is a map of Britain in the 8th century which shows the tribes at that time.

British Territories cover Cornwall (West Wales) all of Wales (North Wales) Cumbria and Strathclyde.

Anglian Kingdoms are East Anglia and Northumbria which starts at the Humber and finishes at The Firth of Forth.

Jutes were in Kent and Middle England (Mercia),

Saxon Kingdoms covered Essex, Sussex and Berkshire-Devon-Dorset (Wessex)

Whilst Scotland had Galloway (Picts) then north of the Firths of Clyde and Forth is split down the middle between Pictland to the east and Scots (Dalriada)

So one could say that the 'true' English or Britons as they were prior to the Roman invasion, are the Welsh and Cornish. They were eventually  pushed westwards by invasions of  the Saxons and Angles. Everyone else came from across the waters.

Jean

 

[Helen D]

Oh b****r, I missed it . Does anyone know if it is being repeated - I enjoyed most of the first one.

Helen

[downside]

Saxon Kingdoms covered Essex, Sussex and Berkshire-Devon-Dorset (Wessex)

That's answered the question then - I'm a bog-standard Saxon. 

[gig]

  hiya great thread but missed the programme 
 im sure somone will put me right ,were the normans and bretons originally displaced from britain by the vicking/saxon who ever invaders

also what about the midlands who ran that bit does anyone know
please exuse my lack of history knowledge i blame a 1980s comprehensive 3 history books between 32 sweet little children
and the  teacher locked in the store room, could never understand why he did it
gigg

[ridgehill]

I taped Saturday's program about East Anglia and the Geordies.

Unfortunately it stopped just as Neil Oliver was about to explain where his DNA came from. Can anyone let me know what he said.

Thanks

[jillruss]

He was extremely happy because he was something like 2.5 times more likely to be from Celtic origins!!

Jill

[Welsh Jules]

This link is interesting, they are looking for volunteers for research

http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/H/history/e-h/face.html