Tombs family

[JAP]

...

I hadn't noticed the Sidney Tom Sutton entry. He was always Sydney, so I dodn't bother checking. I have asked a cousin to get in contact with one of his daughters to check his middle name - he did have one.  ...

Ana,  It just struck me - duh! - that perhaps 'Tom' was an abbreviation or mistranscription of Tombs!  Very often illegitimate children had the surname of the father as their middle name.  Well - this may just be wishful thinking!

JAP
PS: Always try variant spellings 

[Anarchia]

Thanks for the help and advice. I shall definitely let you know if we get Sydney's middle name and tell you what is on the marriage record. I wish the post from the UK was a little faster! And, yes, I should have learnt to check variant spellings by now! 

[Anarchia]

Information from the marriage certificate
James Tombs m. Ellen Bidder
19 Oct 1856 in Yardley, Worcestershire
James, 21, Bachelor, Occupation Packer, Living in Birmingham, Father Joseph Tombs, Fathers occupation Carpenter

Any chance anyone can find James and Joseph Tombs in 1841?

Ana

[Anarchia]

P.S. Unfortunately, it cannot be the obvious one, namely Joseph Tombs, Mason, with wife Ann Tombs and son James Tombs b. 1834 (as well as other children), because that James is still with his parents in 1861, when our James is married to Ellen.   

I have hunted and hunted through ancestry and am just plain stuck. Do you think there is any point me getting his later marriage certificate? I can't find anything that looks like his death record. I know he was still alive in 1914, because he sent his son Percy a brass bed as a wedding present in that year.

I also suspect that James lied about his age with the '21' on the marriage certificate. I think he was probably born closer to 1837, based on his various census entries. Was 21 the age when yuo no longer needed parents consent?

Ana

[JAP]

Hi Ana,

Yes, in England persons under 21 needed parental consent at that time.

However, I'm a bit confused - you say that, on James's marriage to Ellen, James's father is James, a carpenter.  But then you ask for lookups for a Joseph in 1841?  Which is it?

JAP
PS: I don't seem to be able to find a little lodger Percy 'Smith' on the 1881 (on FamilySearch) in Edgbaston ...
And why did you think James might be the James WAGSTAFF with a TOMBS family in 1841?

[Anarchia]

  Sorry, the father's name is Joseph.

My only reason for thinking that the James Wagstaff might be James Tombs was that he was the right age and with a Tombs family - not very well reasoned, just hunting.

Similarly for the Percy Smith - it just seems unlikely that a 3 year old would be a boarder with no relatives in the house, unless something odd was happening, and again, he is the right age, and seems reasonably close to Fanny and James.

I have found a Joseph Tombs who was a cabinet maker on the 1851 and 1861 censuses, b. 1821 in Malvern, Worcester, on the 1851 and b. 1814 in Castle Morton, Worcester, on the 1861, both times with a wife Martha. (Married in 1851 I think - at least there is an entry in Free BMD that matches this, although it is in an odd County.) No link to James Tombs that I can find though.

[JAP]

Hi Ana,

I wasn't arguing against Percy SMITH - it's just that I can't manage to find him in the 1881 census on FamilySearch!

Let's hope someone can look with fresh eyes for James's father Joseph TOMBS in 1841, 1851 and later censuses (sorry - I don't have access to these).

And for James in 1841 and 1851 (though he does seem likely to be the 14yo tap boy b Hanley in the 1851).

Good luck,

JAP
PS: (Added later) This is probably just a red herring but on FreeBMD there's a Joseph Wagstaff TOMBS marrying in Worcester in 1839 ...

[Anarchia]

I have found a James Lutwich born to a Harriett Lutwich in 1837 in Castlemorton, who is on the 1841 census with hs mother, but then vanishes - no further census or death records. Any hints as to how I could sort out whether this is an illegitimate son of Joseph Tombs? (...I can't see how this could be shown to be the case, but just in case you know something that I don't...)

Thanks for being there at the other end of the Post button!
Ana

[Anarchia]

Sigh, no go - I found his death as Lutwyche... Hope I didn't waste your time.