Was my grandfather in the Machine Gun Guards?

[Uncle Reff]

Hi everyone,

The attached photograph is of my grandfather Arthur Edward REFFELL.

The only document that I have of his WW1 service is his discharge certificate which states that he was a sapper in the Royal Engineers. His medal card from the NA also confirms that and that he did receive want his medals.

Family tradition however has it that he was in the Machine Gun Guards and the shoulder & collar flashes appear to confirm this, although everything else is Royal Engineers. Pre-war he was a signal box boy on the early London Underground and the discharge certificate also states that in the event he is recalled, he should report to Longmoor, the military railway.

Family tradition also has it that the Machine Gun Guards were nearly wiped out in action.

The RE museum at Chatham have confirmed the RE connection. However I am at a total loss as to why he should have been for presumably a short period in an elite Guards regiment with such a background.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated - John

[neil1821]

Machine Gun Guards most definitely. Cap badge, shoulder flashes, everything says the same story so no doubt.

Yet it's not mentioned on his medal card? Could you post the medal card for us to look at?

Neil

[Uncle Reff]

Here it is...

[Uncle Reff]

... and discharge certificate:-

I should say that the RE Museum were convinced by the signallers badge on his arm.

Many thanks - John

[Uncle Reff]

And finally...


A group RE photograph, my grandfather is third from left, top row.

[neil1821]

Well the medal card is not the most informative I've ever seen 

Everything apart from the first photo points to REs, no argument.
Excuse me asking an obvious question, but the Machine Gun Guards photo is absolutely 100% definitely your grandfather? It couldn't be a brother for instance?

Just wondering if anyone else in the family was MGG.

[atom12]

Hi 

Enjoyed reading the thread, hope you get your puzzle solved soon.

Your man in the top photo looks every inch a guardsman. He is also a regimental signaller.

Here's a  close-up photo of the cap badge for the Guards Machine Gun Battalion.

[scrimnet]

Quite a poser this one!!

Is not the second picture also Guards Machine Gun Bn??

They appear to have the requisite shoulder titles...and it is either the bn signals or perhaps the signallers course he went on to get qualified??

[Uncle Reff]

Thank you all for your help on this, I greatly appreciate it.

In answer to neil1821, it is a good question and one I have asked myself today many times. Every time the answer is  yes:-

1) My aunt still has his cap badge which is identical to the picture posted by atom12 (thanks)

2) It came from a collection of photographs from my aunt who assured me that it was him

3) He had only one brother, who was in the Northamptonshire Regiment & one cousin who was in the navy. That is all, as far as I know, of my immediate family to be in WW1 - see below

4) I have not found anyone with the same surname who was in the MGG

Sorry, it is quite a problem to me. I didn't want to confuse the issue, but I will do now  He is the only other photograph that I have of him in uniform, this time with his cousin Frank who was in the navy. In the interest of confusing future historians, they have swapped uniforms! 

Thanks once again - John