William BOWLER c1808

[hettie2000]

Help! 

I'm completely confused about my gtgtgrandfather William BOWLER c1808, living in Denton, Lancs on the 1841 with his wife Hannah BROWN c1811 (HO107/581/4 32 20). His occupation is given as 'hatter', and I believe they and their son Edwin moved to Southwark shortly after.

I have a death cert for Hannah dated 1844 in Christchurch workhouse, Surrey. Her age is given as 30, and husband William BOWLER (hatter).

In 1851, I have William BOWLER in Southwark, Surrey with occupation of 'slate polisher' and birthplace Denton, Lancs. He is married to Mary c1805 from Mayo, Ireland. Ref HO107/1564 377 8.

I have the marriage cert for William BOWLER & Mary Ann BRETT in 1845, Parish of Christ Church. William gives his occupation as general dealer, and his father as Nathaniel BOWLER also general dealer. Mary (spinster) gives her father as Richard BRETT.

In 1861, I have William BOWLER again in Southwark, with occupation of 'school slate maker' and birthplace Lancs. He is now married to Elizabeth c1811 from Deptford in Kent. He has 2 stepsons, Edmund FOX and Alfred FOX, with him. Ref RG9/331 128 25.

I found a marriage for William BOWLER and Eliza FOX in 1858 in the Parish of St John, Waterloo, Surrey. William's occupation in the certificate is 'school slate maker', but this time his father is George BOWLER (hatter). Eliza's father is Benjamin HILL.

By the way, this William BOWLER is not to be confused with the one who went on to make the first Bowler Hat  , although I believe they are related.

So....are these William's all the same person? If they are, why did he give his father two different names? The only suitable death I can find for Mary BRETT/BOWLER is 1859 Q1 in Southwark, three months after William married Eliza...I need to send for it. I haven't found a death for William yet (there's one in 1864, Christ Church, but this isn't him).

Would burial records be the way to go now? What else can I do to tie this up, or get more clues? Sorry for the length of my post, but I'd be grateful for any help or pointers!!!

Thanks for reading,
Helena 

[hettie2000]

Sorry, I just realised I should have posted this to the London Message board. Could it please be moved?

Thanks 

[Jane Masri]

Hi Helena,
I think you're ok in leaving your posting on the Surrey page 
I also think you might be dealing with TWO William Bowler's here, possibly cousins.  I did a bit of detective work on the LDS IGI & noted baptism's of children to a William Bowler & Hannah.  There were several in Denton, Lancs. but also it gave a mother's name of Nancy in the Denton area.  At first I thought it was a diminutive of Hannah but the dead give away was that the clerk had very obligingly recorded birth dates as well as baptismal dates & a William & Hannah had had a son, John born 30 April 1833 & a William & Nancy had had a daughter, Hannah born October 2 1833, so William & Nancy had to be another couple.  A William Bowler had married a Nancy Cook 23/12/1832 at Catherdral, Manchester.
Perhaps these two cousins? came down to Surrey & that's where the confusion is setting in?
At the moment I haven't got time to dive further into this but will get back to it later this evening.
The IGI gives an extracted record of the batism of a William Bowler born 25/1/1808 in Denton s/o William & Esther, so that's at least one of them 

jane

[Jane Masri]

Helena,
Are you sure that this William Bowler is not connected to the firm of Thomas & William Bowler from Southwark who made the bowler hat?  This reference from Access to Archives (A2A) & the reference from the Oxford Biography seems to suggest he is  

ref.  MS 11936/464 [n.d.]
- ref.  MS 11936/464/899384  - date: 9 November 1814
 [from Scope and Content] Insured: William Bowler senr, 21 Castle Street Borough, hat manufacturer


Oxford Biography Index entry

William Bowler
Bowler, William (b. 1808), hatter and feltmaker

You say you have the marriage certificate for William Bowler to Mary Ann Brett, does it state he's a widower?  This William doesn't sound like William the hatter.  I would suppose that being a hatter would mean you served an apprenticship so you wouldn't make a career change to a general dealer or slate maker.

jane

[hettie2000]

Thanks so much Jane, for helping me out with this  . Unfortunately it does get very confusing, as you can see 

I've spent some time tracing the William Bowler who manufactured the Bowler hat, and had some contact with one of his descendents who luckily confirmed my research. He was the son of William and Esther, born 1808 in Denton (that's the IGI record you found), and had a brother called Thomas. In 1841 he was living in Denton with wife Nancy and they had children Hannah, Alfred, Esther and Mary with them (HO107/1088/9 20 32). By 1851, William was widowed and living with his children in Southwark, Surrey (HO107/1558 583 32). He's listed as a hatter and living on Lemon St. In 1856 there's a marriage for William Bowller and Mary Martin in Shoreditch, and by 1861 William and Mary are back in Denton with William's youngest son. It's the children who provide the thread in this line of Bowler's and determine this William's whereabouts.

So you're right, the two William Bowler's (the one of Bowler Hat fame, and mine) both moved South in the 1840s. However, mine is harder to trace once he moved. On the marriage cert to Mary Ann Brett it says he is a widower (and she a spinster) which fits with Hannah's death. Perhaps......they moved to London but hit hard times, or Hannah became ill, and she died in the workhouse. William took any work he could find (I'm not clear what a general dealer might be though) until he retrained as a slate maker. Why he didn't work with his cousin(?) in the hatting industry is a mystery.

What bothers me most though is the change in his father's name when he marries again, to Eliza Fox. Again he's a widower, and she a widow. Perhaps it's different person? But surely there can't be many William Bowler's who are slate makers in Southwark?!

Sorry for lengthy post. Hopefully I haven't made your brain hurt too much, and I really appreciate the chance to talk about it and think it through, with someone who's fresh to the confusion. I'm very grateful for your help!

Helena

PS I should probably have said that on the 1841 census both William Bowler's are living in Denton, separately, and both are hatters. Now I need a lie down in a dark room.... <grin>!

[Jane Masri]

Hi Helena,
Mmmmm, I see your problem.  So you feel that William the slate-maker is yours?   It's very suspicious that he married this Elizabeth Fox before his second wife died.  I think you should look for another death of a Mary Ann Bowler other than the 1859 one (which only says Mary) as it looks fairly certain that he did marry this Elizabeth (Eliza) Fox as the 1861 census has her children with them.
Have you found them on the 1871 or 1881 census?  That way you'll have a time-line as to when William might have died.

jane

[hettie2000]

Hello again,

No, I haven't found either William or Eliza on a census after 1861. He obviously doesn't want to be found  . I'll keep on looking though. For the moment I'm assuming his father's name is George, which gives me some leads on his parents, and I'm hoping that I'll get a clue this way. Fingers crossed I'm not following a dead end!

Many thanks again - I'm off to have another hunt through the death records...

Good Luck with your own research!

Helena

[Jane Masri]

Hi Helena,
When searching the census (I presume you have Ancestry?) try putting in ALL the details but omit the surname that way you'll 'catch' all the weird spellings.  Also try the same with the wife & any children, although I would think William's children would be long grown up & moved away by these later census's ( I've seen the name spelt BOWLAR)
The IGI gives an extracted baptism for a William Bowler s/o George & Alice, born 24/1/1807, baptised 29/3/1807, St. Michael, Ashton Under Lyne, Lancs.  I'm not familiar with Lancs. so can't say how close this is to Denton.
I would also look into this marriage between a William & Mary Brett as two things scream Red Flag to me, 1.  his occupation has changed (ok that's possible) 2.  His father is given as Nathaniel 

Keep digging 

jane

[Emiline]

Hi.

I came upon your message whilst looking up George Bowler. Born 1828 I also found a William Bowler on a convict list from lancashire to Australia that might be worth looking at.

http://www.convictrecords.com.au/convicts/bowler

A long shot but maybe.

Hope this helps.

Em