James Hill, Urr Kirkcudbright

[old scotsman]

My Grandfather John Hill born 1887 in Castle Douglas, Kirkcudbrightshire. He was a man of mystery and my Mother knew very little of her Fathers family as they had nothing to do with him and he never talked about them. I just found out he was the youngest of a family of seven, ggrandfather James Hill was a Grocer and moved about a little and traced him back to the 1861 Census

1861 Census Scotland Kirkcudbrightshire Kirkgunzeon
Byrecroft Farm House
James Hill serv Unmarr 13 Ag Lab born Urr Kirkcudbright

I would like to find him in the 1851 and 1841 Census to find more about his family

I would also like to find more about the brothers and sisters of my Grandfather John Hill

James Hill Born 1872 Dalbeattie, Kirkcudbrightshire in the 1891 Census he is listed as Aged 19 Grocers Assistant living at No 21 Laurieston, Balmaghie, Kirkcudbrightshire not found after this Census

Robert Hill Born 1874 Dalbeattie, Kirkcudbrightshire in the 1891 Census he is listed as Aged 17 Sadler living at No 21 Laurieston, Balmaghie, Kirkcudbrightshire not found after this Census

Martha Hill Born 1875 Dalbeattie, Kirkcudbrightshire in the 1891 Census she is listed as Aged 16 Milliner living at No 21 Laurieston, Balmaghie, Kirkcudbrightshire not found after this Census

Margaret Hill Born 1877 Kelton, Kirkcudbrightshire in the 1891 Census she is listed as Aged 13 Scholar living at No 21 Laurieston, Balmaghie, Kirkcudbrightshire not found after this Census

William Hill Born 1881 Kelton, Kirkcudbrightshire in the 1891 Census he is listed as Aged 10 Scholar living at No 21 Laurieston, Balmaghie, Kirkcudbrightshire not found after this Census

Ellan (Helen) Hill Born 1884 Castle Douglas in the 1901 Census she is listed as Aged 17 Grocer's Daughter living with her parents at  No 21 Laurieston, Balmaghie, Kirkcudbrightshire

Thanks in anticipation

Ian Fulton

[MonicaL]

Hi Ian

Is this submitted entry on IGI James's marriage and his parents?:

JAMES HILL  Parents: WILLIAM HILL and MARTHA MURRAY    
Marriages: Spouse: MARGARET JARDINE    
Marriage:  03 JUN 1870  Caerlaverock, Dumfries, Scotland

Regards.

Monica

[MonicaL]

If these are his parents, and you can confirm them from his marriage cert, this looks like the family in the 1861 census with James son already working away from home from the entry you have found:

William Hill    34, agr. lab. b. Ireland
Martha Hill    41, b. Ireland
Mary Ann Hill    13, b. Urr
John Hill    9, b. Urr
Elenor Hill    6, b. Urr
Margaret Hill    3, b. Urr
William Hill    6 Mo, b. Urr

Address: Springholm, Urr

Some IGI birth entries for children to William and Martha:

1. MARGARET HILL  Birth: 14 JAN 1858 Kirkgunzeon, Kirkcudbright, Scotland
2. MARJORY HILL  Birth: 03 JUL 1865 Urr, Kirkcudbright, Scotland
3. HILL  Female Birth: 15 APR 1868 Urr, Kirkcudbright, Scotland
4. WILLIAM HILL Birth: 20 JUL 1860 Urr, Kirkcudbright, Scotland
5. MARTHA HILL Birth: 12 APR 1863 Kirkpatrick Durham, Kirkcudbright, Scotland
6. Helen Hill Mayne or Meyne Marriages Spouse: Peter Berrill Marriage:14 JUL 1895 Manhattan, New York, New York
   

[MonicaL]

Just some actual birthdays for the pre 1875 children to James Hill and Margaret Jardine, from IGI:

1. JAMES HILL  Birth: 06 MAY 1871 Dalbeattie, Kirkcudbright, Scotland
2. ROBERT HILL Birth: 10 AUG 1873 Dalbeattie, Kirkcudbright, Scotland
3. MARTHA HILL  Birth: 06 SEP 1874 Dalbeattie, Kirkcudbright, Scotland

[MonicaL]

Ian

Unfortunately, I cannot see the family on the 1851 census index to be able to place James there, and I've looked at two different indexes. I also looked at the 1851 index for England and couldn't easily see them there either. Final check on Scotlands People for 1851 and only 9 Hills in the whole of Kirkcudbright (one Hillis). No idea where they were for that census.

If you look at any of the birth certs for William and Martha's children in the 1860s, it should include when/where they were married which might provide some additional clues as to whether they married in Scotland or Ireland.

Searching for mother Martha's death under Murray/Hill draws a blank in Scotland. That marriage entry in 1895 for Helen (probably Elenor in 1861) in New York makes me wonder whether some of the family may have emigrated? You could try following through on the censuses perhaps to see if they 'disappeared' before this date

Regards.

Monica

[MonicaL]

William Hill and children, no sign of Martha, in 1871:

William Hill    42, granite polisher, b. Ireland
Helen Hill    14
Margaret Hill    11
William Hill    9
Martha Hill    5

Address: William St, Dalbeattie, Urr

[MonicaL]

Ah, found Martha's death I think. She was registered only by her married name, no maiden name:

1868   HILL   MARTHA    40   URR   /KIRKCUDBRIGHT   884/00 0018

William Hill may have remarried by 1881 and a possible birth county in Ireland for him:

William Hill    54, granite polisher, b. Tyrone Ireland
Mary Farrel    45, b. Ireland, Knigs County
Mary Hill    13, b. Dalbeattie
Catherine Hill    7, b. Dalbeattie
John Bradly    48, boarder, b. Ireland, Belfast

Address: Sunnyside, Dalbeattie, Urr


And the marriage entry on IGI:

WILLIAM HILL  Marriages: Spouse: MARY FARRELL    
Marriage:  04 AUG 1872  Dalbeattie, Kirkcudbright, Scotland

And one of the daughters' births, also on IGI:

CATHERINE HILL   Birth: 10 APR 1873 Dalbeattie, Kirkcudbright, Scotland


Regards.

Monica 

[old scotsman]

Thanks very much Monica for all your hard work with my family it is very much appriciated and has certainly brought new light to my family, and never thought that I had Irish Blood in the family. Two new countrys to search for relations Ireland and the USA

James born 1849 is a bit of a quandry as he gives his birthplace in different locations though his wife and children remain the same

1861 Urr Kirkcudbright
1871 Urr Kirkcudbright
1881 Kirkpatrick Durham Kirkcudbrightshire
1891 Corsock Kirkcud


With the information you have given me it's possible that Martha died in childbirth, as on the IGI birth entries for children to William and Martha that your entry
3.HILL  Female Birth: 15 APR 1868 Urr, Kirkcudbright, Scotland
The baby is not named at the time because of the trauma but ties in with the 1881 Census where Mary aged 13 fits in exactly.
 
6. Helen Hill Mayne or Meyne Marriages Spouse: Peter Berrill Marriage:14 JUL 1895 Manhattan, New York, New York
Could you please explain to me how you tied in this information, and where the Mayne or Meyne comes from?

Again thank you very much

Ian

[MonicaL]

Hi Ian

The marriage entry for Helen Hill in New York is a submitted entry on IGI. Parents names are given on the entry which is why it came up on my search when I searched for all entries for children to William and Martha. Given she was born c.1854 and the marriage date in NY is 1895, maybe this could have been a second marriage and the 'Mayne' was first married name...pure guess Ian 

On James's birth place, it will be hard to be definitive. There doesn't seem to be any birth or christening entries for William and Martha's children before the start of official registration in 1855.

Regards.

Monica