Dover detective story - help needed

[Barry Emmott]

I need your help !! In December 1863 my gt gt grandparents, James Anderson Emmott and Mary (Muirhead) Emmott had a daughter, Lily Emmott, in Snargate Street, Dover. I haven't been able to find Lily in any subsequent census records or records of marriages or deaths. However, in her mother's will, dated 1891, property in Dover was left to be sold to one of her other unmarried daughters, also called Mary, for £550. This sum was to be shared between her six surviving children, including Mary, but no mention of Lily. £550 in those days should have bought a substantial property - can anybody shed any light on the fate of Lily or on the property subsequently owned by Mary Emmott ? Her father, James Anderson Emmott, worked for Pickfords in 1862, either in Dover or Sheerness. Any information about that would also be extremely welcome.
Thanks in hopeful anticipation,
Barry Emmott

[Hackstaple]

Do you have Lily's birth certificate? In the will, apart from Mary, what were the names of the other children? Lastly, do you have this family in any of the censuses? I ask all of this because I have spent some time looking and found no trace of any of them!

[Barry Emmott]

  They have been all over the place !! James Anderson Emmott was married in Shoreditch in 1846, had Alexander Joseph Emmott in Hoxton/Shoreditch the following year, Louisa Margaret Emmott and Betsy Emily Emmott in Norwich in 1850 and 1852, then James Emmott, George Muirhead Emmott, Mary Emmott and Rosa Anderson Emmott in Oxford between 1854 and 1860. William Emmott (my gt grandfather) was born in Bermondsey in 1861 then Lily in Dover in 1863. However the kids were farmed out with relatives (Muirheads) in Poplar and Camberwell. In 1871 two of the girls plus their aunt were running a grocers shop in Wilsden, Yorkshire (the family "seat"). The ones in the will are Alexander Joseph, Louisa Margaret, George Muirhead, Mary and Rosa Anderson (by then Rosa Anderson Hart) and William - no Betsy Emily, no James and no Lily although I haven't been able to find any records of their deaths, nor do they appear to feature in any of the censuses. I don't have Lily's birth certificate but may have to get it. The big puzzle, though, is why did their mother have property in Dover when, so far as I can tell, they only lived there for a short time although I have lost sight of the parents in the 1871 census. They were in Bradford by 1881 and both died there !!
Anything you can find will be most welcome, regards,
Barry Emmott

Do you have Lily's birth certificate? In the will, apart from Mary, what were the names of the other children? Lastly, do you have this family in any of the censuses? I ask all of this because I have spent some time looking and found no trace of any of them!

[Hackstaple]

I would begin to expect the long arm of coincidence here! I cased a line back to 1815, all very plausible with reasonably good date matches and christian name matches to what I was looking for. I then found that these were folk entirely unrelated to me
Families, as you will know, had naming patterns so one might find one, two or three George Williams in every generation so your George William Jacobs might be only a distant cousin of the one you think you have "found" - if you know what I mean.
This is a lot of moving around for a single family and a fast moving family does not usually acquire fixed property. Look, I am just guessing but this is a jigsaw with too many missing pieces and pieces that do not fit at all.

[Barry Emmott]

  I can understand how you would think that this is a jigsaw with parts which don't fit. However, I have info from within the family which seems to show that it is all correct. James Anderson Emmott worked for Pickfords as did his father-in-law and they got moved around quite a bit. There is still a possibility that James and Mary were living in Dover from 1862 when James was at Sheerness (I have a letter) to 1881 when they turn up at Bradford. Mary's will (I have a copy) definitely refers to property in Dover valued at £550.
Regards,
Barry

I would begin to expect the long arm of coincidence here! I cased a line back to 1815, all very plausible with reasonably good date matches and christian name matches to what I was looking for. I then found that these were folk entirely unrelated to me
Families, as you will know, had naming patterns so one might find one, two or three George Williams in every generation so your George William Jacobs might be only a distant cousin of the one you think you have "found" - if you know what I mean.
This is a lot of moving around for a single family and a fast moving family does not usually acquire fixed property. Look, I am just guessing but this is a jigsaw with too many missing pieces and pieces that do not fit at all.

[casalguidi]

An idea or two .............

You say that you have a copy of the will.  Is this a family will or was it proved in the courts?  If it is a family will only, you can get a copy of the grant of representation and the will if it was proved in the courts.  You can't  search the indexes online but see the guide to First National House in Holborn:

http://www.courtservice.gov.uk/cms/3734.htm

Maybe the death duty registers will hold something being as it was a significant amount that was involved.

See the leaflets regarding death duty records and registers:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/default.htm

I see that the index to the death duty registers is evidently now online at:

http://www.nationalarchivist.com/

Casalguidi

[Barry Emmott]

I have a copy of the proved will which I obtained from the registry in York. The records you referred me to gave a nil return !! Hey Ho !!
Regards,
Barry

An idea or two .............

You say that you have a copy of the will.  Is this a family will or was it proved in the courts?  If it is a family will only, you can get a copy of the grant of administration and the will if it was proved in the courts.  You can't  search the indexes online but see the guide to First National House in Holborn:

http://www.courtservice.gov.uk/cms/3734.htm

Maybe the death duty registers will hold something being as it was a significant amount that was involved.

See the leaflets regarding death duty records and registers:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/default.htm

I see that the index to the death duty registers is evidently now online at:

http://www.nationalarchivist.com/

Casalguidi

[casalguidi]

Sorry about that then ........................ but then that's family history isn't it!

At least it didn't take you an age to get there and cost you mega bucks .................... been there, done that ............... and maybe you learnt something else?

Better luck next time!

Casalguidi