Bini, Binney, Binnie or Watson? Yorkshire & Middlesex

[Treelover]

Hello everyone, are we all sitting comfortably? then I’ll begin. Get a drink first this is a long story.

1906  Charles Alfred Watson (Pawnbroker) marries Emily Elizabeth Atkinson address on cert is
3 Pauline Street, Weaste, Salford, father William Henry Watson.

1901 census Weaste, Salford, Manchester. 3 Pauline Street.

William Watson b. 1855 Head married no sign of wife. Commercial Traveller. Born Sheffield, Yorkshire.
Charles Watson b. 1881 Son. Pawnbrokers assistant. Born Manchester
Arthur Thomas Watson b. 1890 School boy. Born Manchester

1891 census 65 Doddington Street, Salford.

William H. Watson. Head b. 1855 Clerk. Born Sheffield, Yorkshire
Eliza Watson Wife b. 1855  Middlesex, London
Mary. Daughter b. 1879 Middlesex, London
Charles b. 1881 MIDDLESEX, LONDON
Amy b. 1884 Middlesex, London
Thomas b. 1889 Salford, Lancashire

Looks all OK.  But can’t find them before this. Can’t get any of children’s birth certs, can’t trace the right ones to get.

Now the good bit,  three older relatives and my late grandmother (daughter of Charles) all said and still say this story.

William Henry born Sheffield, worked for Mayor of Sheffield and embezzled funds and changed his name to Bini, Binnie, Binney (I emailed Sheffield Council there was a William Henry Watson but he wasn’t mine and he was a model employee). Anyway  I digress.

William Henry married a Jewish girl (hope I offend no one here ) who’s name possibly was Bini, Binney, Binnie.

William Henry moved to Middlesex, he had a club in Soho and owned a racehorse.

OK may be it is far fetched, but in that case why can’t I find any of them, or his marriage to an Elizabeth before 1891?

Does anyone out there have any ideas?  I did buy a birth cert for a William Henry Watson born  at right time Sheffield, Yorkshire and followed it through, I lose him for 20 years.

I have put this on Yorkshire and Middlesex forum,

Joan

[jorose]

Could be a coincidence - in 1891 in Salford there are only two Watsons b. Sheffield - your William H., and Mary Ellen Watson, visitor, 46, domestic servant, b. Sheffield, in the house of John Williamson, 55, painter & paper hanger, b. Halifax, and wife Elizabeth, 48, b. ditto.  If you managed to track that William from the birth certificate you had from Sheffield for a little bit, did he have a sister Mary Ellen?

Could Eliza be Mary Eliza? There is a family living in Sheffield in 1881, William Henry Watson 25, Mary E.25, Mary E. 9M, all b. Sheffield, living with the in-laws (Barnes).

According to www.historicaldirectories.org, William Henry Watson was still living at 3 Pauline St in 1909 and 1911.

Any luck with witnesses from Charles' marriage certificate? Was it a church wedding?

I think 'Binney' or varients might possibly have been his original surname - Binney/Binnie does show up in Sheffield - and in some order he ran off to London, got married (maybe), moved to Salford and changed his name.

There's an Amy Watson married in Salford in 1903 who might be yours?

[Treelover]

Hi,

Sorry dead ends again. There was a sister called Mary A. Watson but she was born 1845.

I have ruled out the Barnes family.  I found that family again on 1891 and 1901 census's so they could not have been in two places at the same time, ten years apart. 

By the way, the witnesses, from what I have been able to find  were their best friends.


Thanks for trying though. 

Joan

[Treelover]

Sorry Jorose,

I have just re-read your message, you say William Henry was still there 1909 and 1911, does it just give his name or all the family names?

Thanks
Joan

[jorose]

It's just a directory, so it only says he was there (usually you should search in historical directories with reverse name order, so Watson William Henry was what I looked for).  You might also be able to find his sons - Watson Charles Alfred brings up a hit in 1909, 22 Nansen Street, for example (but also try looking for him as Charles A or just Charles). 

I suppose this does mean that you could send for the 1911 census early to see who was at the address, but I think that service is rather pricey, not quite sure of the details (all my direct relatives had left England by then!)

[Treelover]

Hi again Jorose,

I beleive its in the region of £70 per look up  . Just out of interest did it say what job William Henry was doing, only on his son's wedding cert he is a corporation employee (gas).  I supposed he worked for the Council in 1906.

To be honest I really need to find him further back than 1891, can't even seem to see a death for him but even so I don't think it would have told me much.

Joan

[oldcoderunner]

Sorry if this is a repeat post. I'm new on here and I don't think my last reply to this thread worked.
Basically, I think Charles Alfred Watson is my grandfather on my mother's side, from his second marriage. There are some discrepancies such as year and place of birth, but everything else seems to match what I know of him. I have some photos of him, his shop, his parents and siblings and possibly his first wife and daughter, these may help to check if it is the same man.
Andrew.

[Treelover]

Hi Andrew, sent you a personal message.  This is Charles' short attestation record

NAME:   Charles Alfred Watson
GENDER:   Male
BIRTH DATE:   abt 1881
AGE AT ENLISTMENT:   34
MARRIAGE DATE:   25 Oct 1909
MARRIAGE PLACE:   Prestwich Register
RESIDENCE PLACE:   73 Lightbourne Road, Moston Manchester
DOCUMENT YEAR:   1915
REGIMENTAL NUMBER:   400006
REGIMENT NAME:   Army Service Corps (Mechanical Transport)
NUMBER OF IMAGES:   20
FORM TITLE:   Short Service Attestation
OTHER RECORDS:   Search for 'Charles Alfred Watson' in other WWI collections
FAMILY MEMBERS:   
NAME   RELATION TO SOLDIER
Charles Alfred Watson   Self (Head)
Emily Elizabeth Atkinson   Spouse
Florence Watson   Child

Also Emily died in 1928???   Is it the same one.  Who does Charles say his father is on his marriage cert to second wife?? 

Joan