Hayes of Ballymacreely, Killinchy and Dunmurry

[Sunnyhill]

Sunnyhill with you living in Dunmurry and no doubt others much further afield, have you reached the point of illustrating your family history, if so have you seen the 1830ish and 1860 OS 6inch to the mile maps for Ballymacreelly townland,  the later possibly showing the boundaries of the homesteads etc ?
and the satellite or street view, obtainable through http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/   map references or google maps
and then where the spouse or partner lived etc
Good luck onwards and may you keep getting help from others

No, but that looks great thanks! I haven't lived in Dunmurry since 1959 but still there in spirit

[Kiwi007]

Many thanks for those links Kiltaglassan. That is an excellent site.
I am wondering if anyone knows whether records for marriages in the 1700's are still available somewhere?
Regards
Jo

[Gortinanima]

This is my family - baptised in Killinchy Presbyterian Church

Elinor of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 12 Feb, 1812
Mary of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 28 Aug, 1822
Margaret Ann of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 24 Dec 1824
James Gourley of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 23 Mar 1827
David Lowry of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 02 Apr 1829
Archibald of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 19 Jul 1831
Robert of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 02 Oct 1833.

I also found a record for a Samuel Gourley Hayes, father Archibald, baptised 23 Mar 1827  in Killinchy Presbyterian


In 1835 there was a split in Killinchy Presbyterian Church which resulted in a number of the Congregation leaving and forming Ravara.  There is a list or 'Census' of members of the new Church which was dated 1841.  It included Archibald Hayes plus James, Elinor, Elizabeth, Mary, Jean, Margaret, Archibald, David, & James, living in the townland of Ballymacreelly.

I have a copy of a rental for Ballymacreely 1811-1812 (original creased)
1. Reps of Samuel Hay 92a-1r-39p rent £51-10-0 for 3 lives renewable forever from 18 June 1752
26. Thomas Hay 6a-30p rent £5-12-6 3 lives & 31 years from Nov 1804
30. James Hay 5a-2r-30p rent £9-0-4 from 1804
48. Wm Gourly 4a-3r-10p rent £5-2-0 one life & 21 years from 1793

In addition there is a marriage in Killinchy Presbyterian -
27 April 1835 James Hay of Ballymacreely son of Archibald Hay married Sarah Armour
Witnesses - Thomas Hay, Ballymacreely & Samuel Osbourne

James Hay might be the brother of your Archibald Hay jun?

[Sunnyhill]

Thanks very much, great information. Yes, I have James b abt 1810 m Sarah Armour as likely brother of Archibald 'jnr'.
I have this record:
1836 Register of families of Killinchy Presbyterian Church.   
There is a reference for Archibald Hay in Ballymacreely.  Underneath his name is Thomas (35), James and Sarah bracketed together and then underneath that a child Catherine (1 ½ )

This is my family - baptised in Killinchy Presbyterian Church

Elinor of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 12 Feb, 1812
Mary of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 28 Aug, 1822
Margaret Ann of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 24 Dec 1824
James Gourley of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 23 Mar 1827
David Lowry of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 02 Apr 1829
Archibald of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 19 Jul 1831
Robert of Archibald Hayes, Jun, Ballymacreelly baptised 02 Oct 1833.

I also found a record for a Samuel Gourley Hayes, father Archibald, baptised 23 Mar 1827  in Killinchy Presbyterian


In 1835 there was a split in Killinchy Presbyterian Church which resulted in a number of the Congregation leaving and forming Ravara.  There is a list or 'Census' of members of the new Church which was dated 1841.  It included Archibald Hayes plus James, Elinor, Elizabeth, Mary, Jean, Margaret, Archibald, David, & James, living in the townland of Ballymacreelly.

I have a copy of a rental for Ballymacreely 1811-1812 (original creased)
1. Reps of Samuel Hay 92a-1r-39p rent £51-10-0 for 3 lives renewable forever from 18 June 1752
26. Thomas Hay 6a-30p rent £5-12-6 3 lives & 31 years from Nov 1804
30. James Hay 5a-2r-30p rent £9-0-4 from 1804
48. Wm Gourly 4a-3r-10p rent £5-2-0 one life & 21 years from 1793

In addition there is a marriage in Killinchy Presbyterian -
27 April 1835 James Hay of Ballymacreely son of Archibald Hay married Sarah Armour
Witnesses - Thomas Hay, Ballymacreely & Samuel Osbourne

James Hay might be the brother of your Archibald Hay jun?

[Gortinanima]

1836 Register of families of Killinchy Presbyterian Church.   
There is a reference for Archibald Hay in Ballymacreely.  Underneath his name is Thomas (35), James and Sarah bracketed together and then underneath that a child Catherine (1 ½ )

How do you interpret the above?

Archibald Hay (jun) head of household
Thomas Hay a brother?
James & Sarah Hay married couple with a dau Catherine 1½

I notice children given the names Lowry & Gourly - perhaps Archibald Hay's wife or mother had one of these surnames?

[Sunnyhill]

1836 Register of families of Killinchy Presbyterian Church.   
There is a reference for Archibald Hay in Ballymacreely.  Underneath his name is Thomas (35), James and Sarah bracketed together and then underneath that a child Catherine (1 ½ )

How do you interpret the above?

Archibald Hay (jun) head of household
Thomas Hay a brother?
James & Sarah Hay married couple with a dau Catherine 1½

I notice children given the names Lowry & Gourly - perhaps Archibald Hay's wife or mother had one of these surnames?

Yes, that's all how I interpret it, with Sarah being Sarah Armour

[Gortinanima]

I have had a look at the Tithe book for Killinchy - 21st October 1833 (FIN/5/A/179)

Ballymacreely
266: Samuel Hayes Sen - 7a (10s 1d)
269: Samuel Hay jnr - 2a, 1r (3sh)
270: Arch'd Hay - 3a, 1r (blank)
273: Thomas Hay - 6a, 2r, 32p (10sh, 9d)
309: Samuel Hay & Co - 41a, 2r, 38p (£1-3-35)
314: James Hay & partner - 32a-1r-15p (£2-11-3)
315: James Hay - 12a, 12 (13sh, 7d)
316: Arch'd Hay & Co. - 16a, 1p (£1-4-7)

I think historically you are talking about one Hay family here most likely all related to varying degrees. What is interesting are the groupings of the farms.

I'm not sure if there was one or two Archibald Hays in this survey.

But Archibald 270 is beside Samuel jun 269 suggests a connection.

Also the grouping of 314-316 between James & Archibald Hay.

Sometimes larger farms were subdivided between sons - therefore - the grouping pattern is important.

[Sunnyhill]

Great, thanks very much. I will check and see if I can place them.

I have had a look at the Tithe book for Killinchy - 21st October 1833 (FIN/5/A/179)

Ballymacreely
266: Samuel Hayes Sen - 7a (10s 1d)
269: Samuel Hay jnr - 2a, 1r (3sh)
270: Arch'd Hay - 3a, 1r (blank)
273: Thomas Hay - 6a, 2r, 32p (10sh, 9d)
309: Samuel Hay & Co - 41a, 2r, 38p (£1-3-35)
314: James Hay & partner - 32a-1r-15p (£2-11-3)
315: James Hay - 12a, 12 (13sh, 7d)
316: Arch'd Hay & Co. - 16a, 1p (£1-4-7)

I think historically you are talking about one Hay family here most likely all related to varying degrees. What is interesting are the groupings of the farms.

I'm not sure if there was one or two Archibald Hays in this survey.

But Archibald 270 is beside Samuel jun 269 suggests a connection.

Also the grouping of 314-316 between James & Archibald Hay.

Sometimes larger farms were subdivided between sons - therefore - the grouping pattern is important.

[Sunnyhill]

Hi Gortinanima

Going through my records of Hayes from Killinchy this is what I came up with.
In summary, possibly Archibald b 1772, brothers ?? Thomas, James and Samuel, and son Archibald. That leaves two Samuels who seem to be father and son, and another James [maybe son of one of his brothers].
I assume to be on the list they are most likely over 30 years?

Possible matches from my records:
Samuel Snr and Jnr
1  Samuel 1757 - 1842  m Elizabeth Frew, children Catherine 1790, Robert Lowry 1791 and Samuel 1790
2  Samuel 1790 - see 1
3  Samuel 1810 - 1887 father Thomas b abt 1780, Samuel m Jane Hay 1839
4  Samuel 1770 - son David b 1800

Arch
1 Arch Hamilton Hay b 1811 - 1864 USA father James b 1779 brother James b 1810
2 Arch Snr b 1772
3 Arch Jnr b abt 1790 son of Arch b 1772 and father of my James Gourley Hayes b abt 1827


Thomas
1 Thomas  b abt 1810 m Mary McMillan? 1837
2  Thomas b abt 1805 son Frew Hayes b 1835? Maybe same as 1
3  Thomas b abt 1801 likely son of Archibald b 1772
4 Thomas  b abt 1780 - father of Samuel b 1810 as above also James 1814-1874

James
1 James b abt 1810 m Sarah Armour - father Arch b 1772
2 James b abt 1779 father of another James b abt 1810 and Arch b 1811
3 James b  abt 1810 son of James b abt 1779
4 James b abt 1814 father Thomas b 1780
5 James b abt 1800 children George 1832 and Prudence 1834
6 James b abt 1790 maybe m Elizabeth Gourley children Mary Osborne Clarke Hays 1815, Thomas Osborne Hays 1818, Thomas Taylor Hay 1822, Ellinor Gourley Hay 1823 and others

Possibly fitting tithe records:

266 - Samuel b 1757
269 - Samuel Jnr b 1790
270 - Arch. B 1772
273  - Thomas b 1780 - maybe brother of Arch b 1772 …….. or 1801 [son of Arch b 1772]
309  - Samuel  b 1770 - maybe brother of Arch b 1772 or b 1810 [son of Thomas b 1780]  - could be too young
314 - James b abt 1810 [son of Arch b 1772]  … could be too young  [or son of Thomas b 1780] 
315 - James b 1779 - maybe brother of Arch b 1772
316 - Arch Jnr b abt 1790 son of Arch b 1772