Birkin Family.

[Roy]

Thank you for your suggestion Heather, I will keep it in mind.
Regards,
Roy.

[MaryA]

If Heather is right it would seem that Emanuel and Mary should have had another daughter who married a Birkin.

Come on Heather, think up another reason for them having Birkin grandchildren living with them?

If you search the IGI www.familysearch.org with parents Emanuel Leivers and Mary I see there is a "user submitted" entry for Joseph born 1836. 

Do you have an LDS Centre near you where you can check out the film, there may be details of the submitter.  What a pity they didn't give details for any other children.

[Heather D]

If Heather is right it would seem that Emanuel and Mary should have had another daughter who married a Birkin.

Come on Heather, think up another reason for them having Birkin grandchildren living with them?

Well I may have just muddied the waters and be totally wrong

But is it not possible that Moses' mother Sarah was, in fact the daughter of Emmanuel and Mary after all? Thus two children with the Leivers grandparents and Moses with the Birkin grandparents. That would leave the other Sarah as the possible daughter of John and Christiana. Or have I missed something there? This one is making my fading brain cells hurt!

Roy did your information that Arthur and Mary Elizabeth's father was William come from another researcher (just wondering how definite that is).

But the birth cert. of either Mary Elizabeth or Arthur, plus the marriage of William Birkin and Sarah should hopefully sort it out.

Heather

[MaryA]

Moses is with grandparents John and Christiana Leivers
Elizabeth and Arthur are with grandparents Emanuel and Mary Leivers

Neither are with Birkin grandparents which is how they are confusing us.

[Heather D]

But Roy said in post 12 he was raised by the Birkin family and he is certainly there age 2 in 1871 

[MaryA]

Sorry my heads gone round in circles with this one, it must be the other Sarah who I found with John and Christiana which is confusing me.

Now you have made me look again it was the 1851 census where she was at home, not as late as 1861.

If the birth entry for Arthur Birking is correct and not Birkin then the children could all belong to the same Sarah. 

It bothers me where the other Sarah went to.  Maybe she died - Sarah Leivers death June Qtr 1862 Basford 7b 79, unfortunately no age is given so we can't be sure.

There is a John Leivers (transcribed as Lewers), a widow in 1871 with children Jane 17, William 15, Thomas 12, Sarah A 7, John 6, Emmanuel 3 and Moses 2.  I suspect they are related somehow.

[Roy]

The information I received about Elizabeth Mary & Arthur came from a new contact who by my judgment seems to be pretty reliable.
This person had only recently become aware of the existence of Moses.
I have researched the family of Moses for some years and never found anything that suggested he had any siblings. I do not know of of any of my relatives who are descended from either Elizabeth Mary or Arthur and allways believed Sarah was the daughter of John Leivers. Just to clarify Moses was raised by Williams parents.
I am just about to order certificate for the marriage of william & Sarah.

[Heather D]

Let us know how you get on with the marriage cert. won't you? It's an interesting one!

Heather

[Roy]

Will do.
Roy