GRIBBIN family confusion

[Chris Nilsen]

I have a strange mystery with my Gribbin ancestors that I just can't solve. I am hoping some fresh set of eyes can solve this mystery for me.

This is what I KNOW to be true:

The Gribbins arrived in Adelaide, Australia on 12-9-1854. The passenger list had: Edward GRIBBIN (age 42), Mary (age 32). They had three children with them: Mary aged 17, Edwin aged 10 and James aged 8.

Edwin Gribbin born 28 March 1843 at Mt Hawke, St. Agnes.
James Gribbin born 11 October 1845 at Mt Hawke, St. Agnes.
Both have the parents Edward Gribbin & Mary Ann formerly Oates.

I then found them in the 1851 census:

Piece: HO107/1909 Folio 540 Page 36
Meneguisey
St. Agnes

GRIBBEN Mary 30 Mar  Husband At The Mine born St Agnes       
GRIBBEN Mary Stpdau 15 Copper Miner born St Agnes       
GRIBBEN Edwin Son 8 Scholar born St Agnes       
GRIBBEN James Son 6 Scholar born St Agnes     

So I assumed that Edward Gribbin got married, had a daughter, Mary. Re-married c1842 to a Mary Ann Oates and had 2 sons by her. This is what the census implies.

But I cannot find any marriage in the GRO.

Now it gets confusing:

Mary Ann Oates was born c1822. I have 4 references to her age/birth year and all point to a birth year c1822.

Looking in the IGI it gets very confusing.

There is an Edward Gribbin who married a Mary Ann Oates on 24-7-1834. But this can't be correct as Mary would only be 12 years old.

Also in the IGI we find the daughter Mary Gribbin christened 4-2-1837. Daughter of Edward & Mary Ann Gribbin.

I was hoping for some clarification in the 1841 census, but alas, NO.

In the 1841 census there are only 2 Edward Gribbins, both living in St Agnes:

GRIBBIN   Edward   M   34   Copper Miner   
    GRIBBIN   Kezia   F   31       
    GRIBBIN   Susan   F   6     
    GRIBBIN   Mary   F   5   
    GRIBBIN   Nany   F   4     
    GRIBBIN   Elizabeth   F   2     
    GRIBBIN   Nany   F   15   Copper Miner 


GRIBBIN   Edward   M   30   Copper Miner   
    GRIBBIN   Mary   F   31     
    GRIBBIN   Elizabeth   F   5 
    GRIBBIN   Elisha   M   16   Copper Miner 
    GRIBBIN   Elijah   M   14   Copper Miner   
    GRIBBIN   Samuel   M   12   Copper Miner 
    GRIBBIN   John   M   10   Copper Miner 

The 4 other occupants; Elisha, Elijah, Samuel and John are all in the IGI and have the parents Edward & Ann Gribbin. This probably means the Edward Gribbin (30) is their brother.

Of course, the second family group seems most likely. But if this is Mary Ann Oates she should be 19, not 31.

BUT:
Where is Mary Gribbin? She should be there with her father, aged about 4. In fact the only Mary Gribbin that is the correct age is the one in the first family above. But she's in the IGI and her mother is Kezia. Kezia Gribbin died in the 1st Qtr of 1842.

Is the first marriage to a Mary Ann Oates in 1834 not my Edward Gribbin or did my Edward Gribbin marry two Mary Ann Oates?

Any thoughts to this mystery?

Can anybody find the marriage of Edward Gribbin to Mary Ann Oates c1842, because I cant.

Chris.

[heywood]

Hello Chris,
just to start with:
IGI has 3 marriages:

24th July 1834
Edward Gribbin to Mary Ann Oats

16 August 1834
Edward Gribbin to Kezia Gribbin

27th November 1836
Edward Gribben to Mary Langdon

As you say- Mary 1837 is the daughter of Edward and Mary Ann so you could assume that it is the first marriage and that the Gribbin/Langdon isn't them.
There is also an Elizabeth Ann to the same couple.

1841 ages were rounded down- it may be that Elijah's father Edward remarried to Mary Ann.
Will try to look further.

[heywood]

There is a Mary Ann Oates christened 18 Sept 1810 Saint Agnes, Truro- parents George Oates and Elizabeth.
Also 11th November 1810 to Hugh Oates and Mary

[heywood]

looking at 1841 again- you are probably right re Edward, Elisha etc being siblings.
There is a mark between Edward, 30 yrs Mary and Elizabeth - so they are probably a family and then the other group are together. Unfortunately, next to that group is Edward 34 yrs , Kezia and family.

There is a death for a Kezia Gribbi(ne) 1842 on Free BMD but it is so difficult to trace the children of Kezia and her Edward 

I have to say that at the moment, I feel as though I am going round in circles and repeating what you have already stated.
Am I right that your information re Mary Ann Oates comes from the birth certificates of Edwin and James?

[osprey]

Have you tried emailing the online parish clerk to see if she has more info to help you sort out the different families?

http://www.cornwall-opc.org/Par_new/a_d/agnes_st.php

[krisesjoint]

Hi Chris,

What about this scenario. The three Children were all the Children of Edward and Mary Ann Oates. Mary Ann died and Edward Later maried another Mary 

The enumerator may have just not marked the Step for the boys or Mary may have called them her sons.

There is a death for

GRIBBEN Mary Ann Mar 1/4 1848 Truro 9 223

Then there is a Marriage

GRIBBEN Edward Sep 1/4 1848 Truro 9 327 a Possible Wife is Mary JEFFERY

1841

HO107/149/3 Folio 5 Page 3
Banns
St Agnes

JEFFREY Grace 20 Y
JEFFREY John 15 Y Coper Miner
JEFFREY Mary 15 Y Copper Dresser
JEFFREY Thomas 12 Y Copper Miner
JEFFREY Ann 8 Y

Rounding down of ages occurred in 1841 therefore Mary would have stated she was between 15 and 19

Mary JEFFREY baptised 17 Nov 1822 St Agnes Parents Thomas and Grace

Thomas JEFFRY = Grace TREGASKES 15 Apr 1811 St Agnes

I wonder if the 1841 entry was wrongly enumerated and your Mary enumerated as Elizabeth. The only baptism  I see for an Elizabeth to Edward and Mary Ann is not until Nov 1841, so wouldn't really expect her to be in 41 census.....was Mary - Mary Elizabeth or just wrongly enumerated - we do have a lot of Gribben's in a row there.

Food for thought 

Cheers Kris 

[Chris Nilsen]

Dear Kris,

Thank you for your reply. I think you may be right. It had never dawned on me before that Mary might be step mother to all three children. It makes sense of a lot of the discrepancies. It still means mistakes have been made somewhere, but of all the possibilities I had considered it's the one that makes the most sense.

I think I might try to have a look at the original census image from 1841 & 1851 and see if it reveals a mistake on the part of the transcriber. If I put a look-up request on Rootschat do you think someone might be able to help me with that?

Thank you for your input.

Chris.

P.S. OPC for St. Agnes is unable to help. Her records don't cover the period I need.

[heywood]

Hi Chris,
1851 definitely says 'step daughter' for Mary and son for the boys.

[krisesjoint]

Hi Chris,

I think with the birth certs you have clarified that Mary Ann Oates was the mother of the boys. What is still just a thought is who is the second Mary and when did they marry. I would think the odds of him marrying a second Mary Ann OATES are quite remote, but realistically anything is possible. If that is the case though I can't find the marriage either.

Yes the census image definitely does list Mary as Stepdau and the boys as sons but mistakes are often made. They may have been standing around screaming mum where the older girl would not have been likely to call her mum, and may have looked too old to be her daughter anyway. (If she was at home) You may need to order  that possible marriage and death certs to see if my scenario has any weight here.

Wonder what has gone wrong with Mary's second marriage entry 

PHILLIPS John 70 Widow Father John = GRIBBIN Mary 63 Widow Father Mary GRIBBIN Res Mr Phillips Kadina Dist Dal 147/866

I wonder what the cert says?

Do you know if she is listed in BISA? I will ask Cando to check it for you. If so that may just list her name if we are lucky. Pity Edward and Mary Ann do not appear to have had any children here, and SA death cert wont list maiden name or parents...Kris