Cant find my mothers grandparents please help

[jlbriggs]

My Maternal side seems to have come to an early stop.  I have my grandfather CLARENCE HENRY STEPHENS b1912 marriage cert to FLORENCE MAY BECKETT 10 apr 1937 at St Thomas, Ardwick, Manchester. His father is registered as deceased CLARENCE HENRY STEPHENS a theatrical Agent.
My Grandfather Clarence H Stephens jnr was brought up by another man believed to be his father but then revealed not to be so had no details of the man Im looking for other than he was named after him. His mother GLADYS HENFREY (wife of Clarence snr) also seems untraceable - no birth , marriage or death details - I only got her maiden name from the birth records of clarence and his sister Gladys (named after mother)

I am not sure whether to apply for my grandfathers birth cert wondering if he was told that he was named after his father but maybe not - was that sort of thing done?

Anyway any advice on where to go next would be great.

[sillgen]

There is a birth registered in Q2 1912 ref Chorlton 8c 1553 for Clarence H Stephens and the mother's maiden name is Henfrey so that much of your information is obviously correct.  The certificate will confirm address and occuaption so might be worth having.   
It is always possible that his mother had been married before so married under that name.   Have you looked for a death for his father?  There is a 1901 entry for someone of that name. 
Andrea

[jlbriggs]

I tried but to no avail - My mum says she didnt think he died in the war and his sister was born 1915 so somewhere between there and 1937 he died.  I can not find a marriage for HENFREY & STEPHENS - What entry did you find for 1901 - how old was he and where born - perhaps that may help me find a birth, at the moment he and HENFRY just dont seem to exist.
 

[Valda]

A Clarence Henry Stephens married in Liverpool

Marriages Sep 1915   
Dillworth  Alice  Stephens  W. Derby  8b 1031   
Stephens  Clarence H  Dillworth  W.Derby  8b 1031

His army record gives his address as 2 Garston Street Liverpool and his date of birth as 1892.

Births Sep 1893   
Stephens  Clarence Henry     Bridgend  11a 783

But this man was in the mercantile navy and enlisted on 28th September 1915.

Regards

Valda

[jlbriggs]

hi - I found the one in the army records which made him 18 in I think in 1915 and this wouldnt be him as he had 2 children by then and it says one child on the info...also found the marriage in Wales but her name was DILLWORTH and he married a HENFREY so I discounted that too - thanks for looking as well though

[Valda]

It rather depends whether your grandfather was named Clarence for his father or Clarence Henry. The latter narrows it down significantly.

Probable red herrings but interesting and not necessarily connected to each other in anyway- but the way they are set out makes them look like they are - so beware. I've just put them down to question how much you have looked at the Scottish civil registration and eliminated that as a possible source of information?
Nothing in the list below actually 'fits' in any way or at this point is necessarily significant.

Deaths Jun 1909   
STEPHENS  Clarence  42  Chorlton  8c 528


1901 census RG13 403 folio 90
147 Stamford Street Lambeth
Clarence D Stephen 34 Scotland Boarder Married Publishing Contractor Employer


Births Mar 1914 
DANIELS  Margaret E  Henfrey  Chorlton  8c 1345

Marriages Mar 1913 
Daniels  Charles  Henfrey  Manchester  8d 257   
Henfrey  Minnie M  Daniels  Manchester  8d 257

1901 census 4 Leny Street Glasgow Lanarkshire
Henry Henfrey 50  born England Tax Collector
Margaret M Henfrey 19  born India
Ethel M Henfrey 17  born India East Fish shop assistant
William E Henfrey 14  born England Coal Lorry Messenger
Minnie M Henfrey 11 born Glasgow Lanarkshire

no sister showing called Gladys though - was Gladys her only name?

1891 census
21 Seamore Street Glasgow Lanarkshire
H J Henfrey 44 born England Commissionaire
Mary Henfrey 31  born Maybole Scotland
Fanny E Henfrey 16 born Cannanon? India Domestic Servant
Margaret Henfrey 10 born Thaystings?  Buroah?
Ethel Henfrey 6 born Bangalore India 
William Henfrey 4  Lambeth England
Minnie Henfrey 2  Glasgow Scotland
 
I think you really do need  the full details from your grandfather's birth certificate to take this further forward.

Regards

Valda

[sillgen]

Can we assume that you have also checked for Stevens?   The two spellings can be confusing.   The 1901 entry was just Clarence - not Clarence H.  Sorry to mislead you.  Born c1888 in Gloucestershire.
Andrea

[Valda]

This is Clarence's sister?

Births Mar 1914  
STEPHENS  Florence E  Henfrey  Chorlton  8c 1577

Deaths Mar 1916  
Stephens  Florence E  2  Chorlton  8c 1011

I can't see a sister named Gladys for her mother who was born in 1915 or any other date?

If Florence was named for her mother then of course Minnie did have an elder sister called on the 1891 census Fanny E. who could be a possible, but Fanny and Florence aren't the same names.

Regards

Valda

[jlbriggs]

I have just looked at my docs and Im sorry to confuse you Gladys was 1916 last quarter.....I did find her in the BMD records on ancestry which confirmed he maiden name HENFREY as it did with CLARENCE. but it certainly makes me wonder if there was another daughter florence who perhaps died and he didnt know
I have looked also under STEVENS
Im not sure about the Clarence Henry being named after his father its just thats how he is named on his marr cert but he will only put what hes told - so yes Im thinking now after months of searching it may be a red herring...