Ham Waters, Eastry

[mazeppa]

Help needed please.

1841 census. Ham Waters  HO107 Piece 466 Folio 7/12 Page 16

 I have probable connection with Hoile as children's names fit with
a baptism list.

What I would like to know is the location of Ham Waters,  would that have been in Ham or Eastry, which I know is a village as well as a district.

It does not appear on 1861 census.  All the occupants were the usual 'Ag. Lab.' so I'm not looking at gentry here, although Felderland House appears
with Ham Waters on same details as above but Page 15.

Hoping someone can help.

Mazeppa

[casalguidi]

Hi Mazeppa

Felderland (hamlet) was split between the parishes of Eastry (village) and Worth although I think Felderland House comes under Worth

According to the National Archives catalogue, the 1841 census for Ham has the piece number HO 107/467 whilst there are a couple of entries for HO 107/466 -Eastry parish and Eastry hundred.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

In the Tythe award schedule of Eastry, there is a John HOILE owning property/land at or named Felderland c1839 see http://www.kentarchaeology.org.uk/Research/Maps/EAY/02.htm

I'm not sure if this helps or confuses the issue further

Casalguidi

[BettyofKent]

I've never heard of Ham Waters.
Perhaps it was the name the locals gave to a particular area of land with a lake or stream, & the enumerator took it to be the 'official' name.

Betty

[cam18]

Hi, a little info on worth and surrounding area which may or may not help.

1. From the Church in WORTH there is a footpath that leads to HAM LANE (Ham being next village from Worth) this footpath carries on (to the Left is Hacklinge) and to the right which leads to EASTRY past HAM WOODS, this footpath also leads directly to FELDERLAND LANE pass Felder Cottage.

2. Felderland house (which is still standing) is classed as Worth.

3. There is also an area of wet meadow and dykes called HAM FEN, and also as you walk down Mill Lane and enter into HAM, there is a brigde which is called HAM BRIDGE, now as far as I know this dyke leads directly to Felderland Land near Felderland House.

4. John Hoile owned Felderland Pasture, Orchard, Garden, Stables and Plantation, HOUSE, Garden, Wood and Pasture totalling 11 acres.

5. There is also a William Hoile listed as occupying cottage and gardens there.

so maybe these are connected to the Ham Waters census description??

[mazeppa]

Thank you all for your help, wonderful tour cam 18 - I can visualise it now and almost feel I've been there. 

The wet meadow and dykes could mean as Betty said that Ham Waters was a local name, on the census the addresses run-

FELDERLAND HOUSE,   John Hartnett Ind. + family and what appear to be two servants. 

HAM WATER, no 'S',  ? Waeakes / Waeatres Cock, Ag. Lab. + household.   

GREAT HAY,  James Gilham, Ag. Lab. + household.

HAM WATERS,  Thomas Spain, Ag. Lab. + household. 

                        Benjamin Hoile,  Ag.Lab. + household.

GREAT HAY,      Isaac Johnson, Ag.Lab.   + household.

I wonder if these buildings were in reasonably close proximity or did the enumerator zig-zag all over the place ?

The John Hoile who owned 11 acres obviously had more money then my Ag.Lab.

I'm off now to search the Nat. archives, fascinating reading, might not bother with housework today !!!!

Cheers,  Mazeppa

After thought.   On marriage certs is it the norm to state  Father 'deceased' if that applies, or is it hit and miss ?

[casalguidi]

On marriage certs is it the norm to state  Father 'deceased' if that applies, or is it hit and miss

Particularly it the earlier days of civil registration it was very "hit & miss" - I would say more often it is not stated even if he was

Casalguidi

[cam18]

Your most welcome, just hope the information helped more than hindered. The only puzzling things is that Felderland House, is situated in Felderland (Fenderland as sometimes referred to in older documents) Lane and is classed as being in Worth, not Ham.

I'l take a walk up to Ham tomorrow and try grab one of the old folk and see if they know anymore. Don't worry I'll let them go afterwards

Regards Claire

[mazeppa]

Thanks Claire,  I look forward to anything you may find, lovely afternoon for a walk.

Regards, Mazeppa

[cam18]

Sorry its taken so long to get back to you, but you know what some old folk are like, you get em talking and your there for weeks!!!

Everyone I have spoken to, not one can give me a definite answer, but rumour seems to be..... Ham Waters is what is now called Ham Bridge along with the land up to felderland lane!!(Which you should beable to pick up on most maps, old and new). Now the bridge is classed as Ham, but immediately surrounding the bridge is farmland... now as far as the locals are concerned this wetland belonged to felderland farm and this runs right up to a orchard which stands near enough opposite felderland house (and to one side of the 'Cabin').

No houses in felderland lane called Ham Waters (not that I've discovered) one side of FH is Stackyard Cottage then felderland farm and cottages and the other side going towards eastry are fenelon and bramble cottage (semi detached old cottage, I would think was just one dwelling at some time) then oberland house and that's where worth ends. however, just thinkin as I am typing, the house opposite Felderland House is called the Cabin??? Cabin/Water? Infact, A good friend of mine, lives in the cabin, so I'll have to ask him if he knows the history! The story goes on................

Have a lovely picture of felderland house, as it is today if you would like a copy
Hope I've confused you adequately as usual.
Regards Claire.