1851 lookup please: Lettice or Lettie White

[silicondale]

She should be in Brighton in 1851 (and 1841), and with any luck her husband too. She was born around 1780ish. Died in Brighton in 1858. Any information welcome. Probably born in Woburn, Bedfordshire but if elsewhere this will be an important clue. She was a sister-in-law of my ggg-grandmother Ann White who married William Henley in Woburn in 1805. Ann Henley nee White was definitely living at 77 St James's Street, Brighton in 1838 and Lettice White was a witness at her (Ann's) son John Henley's marriage to Esther Vine in 1838 (also in Brighton).

thanks in advance for any information at all!

- Stephen

[Elleray Girl]

Hi Stephen,

This is the only one I can see in Brighton....

1851 - HO107; Piece: 1645; Folio: 101; Page: 49
Civil Parish: Brighthelmstone 
Town: Brighton 
County/Island: Sussex 


3 Mighell Street

Lettie White, Head, 77, Seamstress, born London St Clements


1841 - HO107; Piece 1121; Book: 3
Civil Parish: Brighthelmstone 
Hundred: Brighthelmstone 
County/Island: Sussex 

Kemp or Kinch Town

Charlotte Wheeler, 36, Ind, nor born in county
Lettice White, 60, FS, not born in county
6 other servants in the household

Not sure if this will help or not - it does say on the 1851 that she is unmarried (but she could be a widow).

Happy hunting

Karen

[silicondale]

Hello, Karen -

That is not helpful at all (the census data I mean, not you - you've been very helpful!). It's not even clear whether the 1841 and 1851 records refer to the same person.

The 1851 address is not one that I recognise, and 'unmarried' is no use! I can see I'll just have to fork out for the death certificate and risk it being entirely the wrong person. Alternatively try another angle: search for Lettice somebody marrying somebody White, in Brighton or Woburn (as far as I know there is no link at all, from this part of the family, with anybody in London St Clements).

Thanks very much, anyway. The mystery continues...

[sillgen]

Hi
I had a quick look at the White marriages on the Sussex Marriage Index and did not see one to a Lettie from 1795 to 1815 but it was a quick look!
I am interested to know how you know she is a sister in law of Ann without knowing her husband's name.  Sister in law sometimes meant step sister in those days too.  It is also slightly odd to have an older person as a witness at a wedding - could this be a younger Lettice White?  Cousin of the groom or wife of a brother?
I suspect the two found by Karen are the same person - especially if you take into account the fact that most ages above 15 were rounded down in the 1841 census.
You could always write to Brighton register office and ask them to check if that Lettice is the right age or a widow.  They don't usually charge for that sort of enquiry.
Andrea

[silicondale]

hi Andrea -

Thanks for the suggestions. I got the information from a letter which John and Esther Henley wrote to Esther's sister Rhoda the day after their marriage on 18 April 1838.  In listing the people who attended a "very excelent Dinner and a very Comfortable Party", John Henley includes "Mrs White my aunt" - and on the marriage certificate there is a Lettice White who was a witness. Yes, it is possible that the aunt and the witness were not the same person, but this is the first thing to test. Writing "Mrs White" suggests that there was at some time a Mr White - hence the 'sister-in-law'. Since William Henley certainly came from Woburn, and he married Ann White in Woburn, it is quite likely that whether sister or sister-in-law, Lettice also came from Bedfordshire - but have found no trace of her there.

If Mrs White and Lettice White the marriage witness were not the same person, it seems likely to me that Lettice could have been Mrs White's daughter and would then have been born 1800-1820ish.

As you can see, still struggling with a great deal of ignorance over the White part of the family ! I'm still unable positively to identify Ann White.

By the way, the letter mentions that the marriage was performed by licence (in Salem Particular Baptist Chapel). Although I have a copy of the standard marriage certificate, is it possible there might be extra information if I can locate the licence ? For one thing, I don't know if John's father was still living - though from the letter I do know that his mother was - and the address.

-Stephen

[sillgen]

Hi
There may well be extra information in the licence.   If one was under age for instance then a parent would have to sign.  There may also be further details in the actual register of the Baptist chapel too.   Our local Baptist church has very detailed record books showing who attended each service for instance.  If you google it then an IHGS website comes up which appears to have fiche of some of their records. Brighton History Centre have some too.  Not marriages though but they might know where the registers are.
Andrea

[Roy G]

Hi
Have you tried going on a different tack and looking in the local Brighton papers to see if there was a report on the marriage of John Henley & Esther Vine just after 18 April 1838?  The Brighton History Library still have copies of these old newspapers on microfilm, and it would seem from your writing that the family were well travelled and educated so more information about the wedding may have appeared on the Court & Society pages.

Roy G

[silicondale]

Thank you, Andrea and Roy for those excellent suggestions. Plenty for me to follow up! I had actually thought of, and dismissed, the newspaper idea - they weren't exactly society people: just respectable 'artisans'. John Henley was a tailor, his father an upholsterer, and Esther's father was William Vine, miller - and an elder of the Salem Chapel - but was no longer living, in 1838. Maybe there would be something in the newspapers, though. As for the Salem Chapel records, that was something already on my list to seek out, but I think more important now. Looks like I'll need to take a trip to Brighton soon - it's a long way from where I live in derbyshire - though maybe I can twist the arms of a few distant cousins still living in Brighton to do some of this themselves.

[Roy G]

Re Willliam Vine (miller)

Suggest you get a copy of:
          "The Windmills & Millers of Brighton" By HT Dawes.
            ISSN 0263-5151.
It tells you William once owned Patcham Mill 1813-1818, then Vines Mill near St Nicholas Church in Dyke Road.  There is a print showing Vines mill in 1843 painted by his son in law, Henry Bodle and 2 pages of info about the mill itself.  It also tells you that William attended the Salem Chapel in Bond Street and that after he died in 1837 his wife Mary continued to work the mill on her own.

Roy G