1861 lookup - John Martin, marden parish

[supernova7]

G'Day from Oz,

I am hoping that someone can help me with a lookup from the 1861 Census for a John Martin and family from Marden, Kent. - age unknown but probably 18-35. Also any info on a Mary Ann Harris (age 15-20) and Family from the same area would be gratefully received.

Cheers,

James Robinson,
Sydney Australia

[kated]

Hi James

I'm just getting through my mails. Marden is quite big in 1861. Do you have an address as I don't have any index?

regards

Kate

[supernova7]

Hi Kate, 

I am just back from holidays myself and I thank you for responding to my request.

The real subject of interest for me is to locate the ancestors of my g grandfather, John Martin or John G Martin, who according to my late grandmother (who you would never doubt, believe me) was born on November 19, 1864 in Marden, Kent. No more specific details known and the GRO has no record of his birth.

Just this week, I believe I located my John G Martin, age 6, in the 1871 census. At the time of the census, he was living with an extended family in Buffets Row, Ryarsh, Kent but his BP is clearly marked as Marden.

Living him with him at the time was his sister, or aunt (the relationships are confusing), Maria M Martin, then aged 12, BP also Marden, Kent. So in the 1861 census Maria would have been 2 or 3. I now know that Maria married in 1889 (John G Martin, witness) and her father's name was recorded as James Martin on the certificate. This differs from John Martin's marriage certificate (1893) which list his father as John. So Maria may have been his aunt rather than his sister. Either way, James or John or both appear to have faded from the scene by 1871.

So an alternative search of the 1861 census for Marden should find Maria M living hopefully with her immediate family. This may provide clues regarding John (and Maria's) ancestors.

I do not know the Marden parish personally, but I understand it to cover a very large area so I understand your query requesting more specific details.

Unfortunately this is most of what I know about John and Maria Martin in the 1860/1870 timeframe.

I would be very grateful for any information you choose to share with me.

Kind Regards,

James Robinson
Sydney, Australia 

[kated]

Hi,

Well Marden is too large for me to search it all. Ideas

- Perhaps you could get an address from Maria's birth? But then she may only be an aunt.
- Post on a name message board?
- Check IGI database if you haven't already.
- check marden parish records
- buy the disk yourself from archive CDs and prepare for hours of trawling!

Kate

[supernova7]

Hi Kate,

Thanks. That's good advice.. I'll do some more investigation.

Cheers,

James

[casalguidi]

1861 Marden

James MARTIN head mar 34 ag lab b.Marden
Mary wife 40 b.Marden
Maria Marg't dau 2 b.Marden
Stephen SHAW lodger wid 70 ag lab b.Marden

RG9/498 folio 35 page 9

.......................

Assuming that the relationships are correct on the 1871 census, then John G MARTIN would be the grandson of this couple above and the son of Mrs Mary Ann CHAPMAN nee MARTIN 

Something for you to work at anyway ............. 

Casalguidi

[supernova7]

Thanks Casalguidi,

Thanks for the 1861 lookup. That certainly places Mary as his mother, or grandmother.

It would appear that Mary Ann may be the mother of John G. Martin but I have recently received more information. On John G's birth cert his mother is recorded as Mary, who I thought was his grandmother, (no father mentioned). I question that on the basis that:

John G is recorded as the 'son-in-law' of Albert Chapman on the 1871 census ie Mary Ann's son and,
Mary Martin would have been aged about 46 at the time of John G's birth, not a biological impossibility, but doubtful, in my mind.

So, despite the information found on the birth cert,  I have temporarily concluded that Mary Ann was John G's mother. Mary Ann was boarding in Maidstone in 1861 (age 18).

Is it possible that John G's grandmother, Mary, covered up on her daughter Mary Ann's illegitimate birth by recording her own name at the Registry Office? Did that happen in those days?

Interestingly, John G. mentions his father's name as John Martin on his marriage cert so I am researching the possibility that James Martin was somehow related to John G's father, and that is why I am interested in the 1851 Census for Marden Kent. If I can locate James and John Martin witihin the same area, I may be on to something.

Sorry to ramble on but I am very grateful for the assistance you have provided me on my research into my Great Grandfather's family.

James,

Sydney, Oz