Author Topic: Lock's of Gloucester  (Read 13390 times)

Offline tweetypie

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Re: Lock's of Gloucester
« Reply #18 on: Sunday 22 February 09 18:23 GMT (UK) »
  :) I have just re-read one of your earlier posts, sorry I am going to have to catchup quickly!!
Do you mind telling me, as I do not know, how you know that Henry lock is a proven Romany?  :)

Offline LockeRoots

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Re: Lock's of Gloucester
« Reply #19 on: Monday 23 February 09 04:25 GMT (UK) »
Which Henry Lock are you speaking of? Henry Lock father of Matthew Lock is no doubts Romany, I am in contact with one of his descendants. Your Henry Lock of Aberford, I don't know if he is Romany or not.

DNA testing on Matthew Lock's male descendant proves he is in Y Haplo Group H1a, which appears to have originated in India / Pakistan area, and the Romany are thought to have been Indian descendants according to linguistics experts and historians.

So besides the language base being Indian in origin, because they are in fact Indian descendants, they obviously carried over with them Indian DNA in them.
It is when you add the history, language, and DNA together, you can clearly identify the European Romany as Indian descendants.

Riley and Smith are typical Romany / Traveler surnames yes, as is Lock(e), Boswell, and lots of others. Not all travelers are Romany though, but may have close or distant ties to the Romany families, while other travelers may not have blood ties to the Romany what so ever.

Did you read the private message I sent to you?  There is no longer any need to be frustrated in the paper trail research. With a simple DNA test, we can tell if your Lock(e)'s are a DNA match to the Romany Lock(e)'s. Even with out a solid paper trail, DNA testing being done on us males can help prove a family connection.

DNA testing will not tell us how 2 men are related, but will tell us if they shared a common male ancestor. If one of your Lock(e) men gets DNA tested, we can compare his Y chromosome to 61 other Lock(e) men who have already DNA tested from England and the USA.
 Of the 61 men, 2 Romany Lock branches are represented in the Locke DNA project already.

If your Lock(e)'s are Romany, they should be in this rare Y Haplo Group H1a, and if in fact they are in Y Haplo H1a, you will have your proof because H1a is not native to Europe, it is native to India.
Of 61 Lock(e) men of England and the USA whom have DNA tested to date, the only 2 lineages in this rare Y Haplo Group H1a is Henry Lock father of Matthew Lock and Richard Lock.
So 2 Romany Lock branches are already DNA tested to compare to your Lock(e) lineage.

And what you speak of with Jack Lock having been involved in the fairs, is another good indicator of a Romany connection. Like I said before, if we ignore the fact that your Henry Lock was settled as early as he was, with the marriages to Riley and Smith's is a good indicator this is a Rom Lock branch. Add in the fair part of the history tells me you could in fact be related to us.

Some of the Rom Lock's were settled as early as 1841 according to the census records, so I would presume others likely settled far earlier then 1841. The settled branches are harder to tell if they are Romany because they are no longer traveling.

DNA testing your male Lock(e)'s is the key here. 6 Lock(e)'s in the USA and 1 in England have already DNA tested and confirmed we are all a good DNA match to one another, and all 7 of us are in Y Haplo Group H1a. So you have the perfect opportunity here to prove a blood connection to our tree with a simple DNA test on one of your males. What you have shared with me so far, seems to clearly indicate you could very well be correct, that your Henry Lock just maybe the son of Henry Lock and Sarah Peters of South Cerney. If your Henry Lock is in fact the son of Henry Lock and Sarah Peters, then Matthew Lock would be a brother to your Henry Lock.

Even with out a solid paper trail, DNA can at least confirm your Henry Lock is a Rom by comparing your male Locke's to Matthew Lock and Richard Lock's male descendants.
The Lock(e)'s are not the only Roms in this rare Y Haplo H1a either, we have since discovered
2 Lee branches and 1 Burton branch are also in this rare H1a. And a Mr. Smith has recently ordered a DNA test and will will get to see his test results in the next month or so.

Feel free to email me privately for more details regarding DNA testing.
Donald Locke

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Offline LockeRoots

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Re: Lock's of Gloucester
« Reply #20 on: Monday 23 February 09 05:48 GMT (UK) »
Here is another good clue, but not certain how William Lock fits in to the picture.

1851 Aberford, Yorkshire, England census
District 8
Page 16
# 64
John Warton, age 75, b. Aberford, Yorkshire, he is a widow, Laborer
Son in Law: William Lock, age 46, b. Ferrybridge, Yorkshire, Laborer
Wife: Elizabeth Lock, age 35, b. Aberford, Yorkshire
Son: Samuel Lock, age 7, b. Aberford, Yorkshire

Warton / Wharton is another known Romany surname, and it appears William Lock married
Elizabeth Warton daughter of John Warton.

 So that makes connections to Smith, Riley and Warton presuming we can figure out who this William Lock is to Henry Lock. I am betting William Lock is likely another son of Henry Lock, but not listed in the IGI records online. William Lock would have been born about 1805 which fits in to the exact time frame of being a likely son of Henry Lock & Hannah Riley.
 But unfortunately Ferry Bridge is not listed in the IGI records online to check to be certain he was actually born there.

If William Lock can be proven to be another son of Henry Lock, then you will also have Warton connections and that makes your Romany case very strong in my eyes.
Locating William Lock's christening record is needed to help prove he is the son of Henry Lock.
I will keep searching. With Riley, Smith and now Warton, makes for a pretty strong case your Henry Lock is likely a Rom as far as I am concerned.

Thank you very much for bringing this to my attention! :)

Don
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Offline LockeRoots

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Re: Lock's of Gloucester
« Reply #21 on: Monday 23 February 09 06:14 GMT (UK) »
William Lock married January 29, 1834 in Saint Peter, Leeds, Yorkshire, England to
Elizabeth Warton / Wharton.

Source: IGI records

can't be certain this is one and the same William Lock, but looks close.

William Lock was born 30 DEC 1809 , christened 04 NOV 1818  Saint Savior, Dartmouth, Devon, England, son of Henry Lock & Hannah.
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Offline tweetypie

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Re: Lock's of Gloucester
« Reply #22 on: Monday 23 February 09 09:34 GMT (UK) »
Thank you, what a lot of info! my tiny brain is beginning to steam already!!
Just to add before I forget, Henry lock born 1777/78 was noted down for all his children as either farmer, laborer, but on the entry of his last child Joseph born 1824, he is listed as a navigator?
William Lock, well I have not been able to tie into my family tree yet. There are a few Lock's from Ferrybridge which appear to have come to Aberford around the same time as Henry snr, but as yet I have not found a direct connection to my lot.
Of the headstones at St Ricarus, Aberford for the Lock's, well they are all very large, fine stones and must have cost a lot for that time and yet as far as I can tell, most of the family were in some sort of service as laborers, gardeners etc?!
I need to get back in touch with the Borthwick Institute.

Offline tweetypie

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Re: Lock's of Gloucester
« Reply #23 on: Monday 23 February 09 09:57 GMT (UK) »
William Lock born 30th Dec 1809, but christened in 1818?(very late to christen)? Do you know where exactly he was born? Only i have noticed that Henry Lock was born on the 25th May, 1808 in Aberford and christened on the 2nd July 1809. there is room to have had another child in between henry 1808 and George born 1810, but when I did a search through the Borthwick institute they did not list him with the others, maybe because he is either unrelated or he was maybe born out of that parish? Do you know?
If William is another of their children, i wonder why they were down in Devon and why they had him christened so many years later?

Offline LockeRoots

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Re: Lock's of Gloucester
« Reply #24 on: Monday 23 February 09 19:10 GMT (UK) »
I do not know the answer to your questions yet. I do not know where William Lock was born, nor do I know why he was christened so late. In the census records, William says he was born in Ferry Bridge, but I do not rely on what folks say in the census to be true and factual.

All I do know is, his birth date and parents names do fit in. But we can not know if they are one and the same Henry & Hannah Lock of Aberford.

I still have much to do, still have census records to transcribe and other records to check out.
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Offline Gillg

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Re: Lock's of Gloucester
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday 24 February 09 16:39 GMT (UK) »
Don

I searched in the South Cerney parish records for Henry Locke's baptism between 1740 and 1760, but I'm afraid he wasn't there, so must have been baptised elsewhere.

The baptism of Richard, son of Richard & Mary Lock in Ampney Crucis took place on 31 Aug 1699 as you said earlier, and was easily found and clear to read.

Sorry I couldn't help with Henry.

Gillg
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

FAIREY/FAIRY/FAREY/FEARY, LAWSON, CHURCH, BENSON, HALSTEAD from Easton, Ellington, Eynesbury, Gt Catworth, Huntingdon, Spaldwick, Hunts;  Burnley, Lancs;  New Zealand, Australia & US.

HURST, BOLTON,  BUTTERWORTH, ADAMSON, WILD, MCIVOR from Milnrow, Newhey, Oldham & Rochdale, Lancs., Scotland.

Offline LockeRoots

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Re: Lock's of Gloucester
« Reply #26 on: Tuesday 24 February 09 18:48 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Gillg
That helps a lot, so I know to look elsewhere for Henry Lock :)
Lock / Locke unofficial single surname study.

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