Ratcliffe or ratcliff in Hampton Wick, Kingston On Thames, Dorking

[T.R.]

I am researching for a connection between Ratcliffe or Ratcliff family at Hampton Wick circa 1836. Kingston On Thames circa 1775 - 1836, and possibly Dorking 1600- 1775.

Is there anyone else searching this line or am I alone?

t.r.

[Jane Masri]

Hi T.R.

If you go to the Surname Interest page (link at the bottom of this page) there are a few people researching Ratcliff (e) but I can't see any Surrey research there    it's mostly up north.

I've just looked at my copy of Dorking pr's & the name with many variations does appear there from early dates so let me know if I can help.

jane

[T.R.]

Jane

Thank you for the offer to help.

I just went to preview my reply and somehow lost the entire message so I Need to start again.

I really need to confirm a family between Kingston On Thames and Dorking.  I am not confident about moving forward until I can do this and I have been stuck here for some years.

I have found the family at Kingston On Thames with baptisms 1791 - 1808. The father is William Ratcliffe and the mother is Mary (nee Marshall source marriage allegation. 

The allegation does not give the brithplace of either.  The IGI gives a William Ratcliffe Born about 1772.  There is also William Ratcliff baptised at Dorking 1.4.1774 and a Mary Marshall baptised at Dorking on 2.2.1769.  This would make Mary 5 years older than William, but it would fit.

There are a couple of circumstances which makes Dorking a possibility:
1. A Henry was born at Kingston on Thames on 17.11.1771 and his parents were Peter Ratcliff and Mary.  He is the only child of this couple appearing there.  However the age is right and in addition to a son William,  Peter and Mary also had two deceased children at Dorking one named Peter and the other named Henry both died in 1773.
2. The father of William of Dorking was named Peter Ratcliff and a Peter Ratcliff married a Mary Rose at Saint Olave Southwark on 19.6.1768.  Two generations later, William Ratcliffe of Kingston on Thames names a daughter Mary Rose. Perhaps she was named after her grandmother Mary Rose.

The wife of William of Kingston On Thames was buried at Hampton in 1811.  The register does not give her birthplace and her husband is only described as a 'newcomer'.  William does not appear in the BMD register after 1837 and the registers for Hampton and Teddington 1811- 1837 yielded nothing.  Perhaps the Kingston On Thames contain a reference to his death?

I am awaiting the arrival of a copy of an administration for the estate of an earlier Peter Ratcliff of Dorking (died 1729) but I am not really hopeful that it will refer to a later a generational shift from Dorking to Kingston On Thames.

So this is where I have been stuck.    I really need to confirm whether there is any connection to Dorking or otherwise.

If you can point me in the right direction it will be most helpful.  If not, thank you for reading this far and thank you for the offer to help.

I am just going to post the message this time and and not going to risk a review of the.

My regards

t.r.

[Jane Masri]

Mmmm, I see your problem 
From the Surrey Burial Index;
Peter Ratcliff  21/2/1754  Dorking
Peter Ratcliff  1/6/1773    Dorking

Did Peter Ratcliffe who died in 1729 die in Dorking?  As I can't see the burial for him.

One marriage from the Surrey Marriage Index;  Peter Ratcliff to Sarah Boxshal 5/11/1743 at Dorking & both of that parish.

I've checked for wills at Surrey Plus Wills & the TNA Documents Online with no success.  Have you had a look for settlement certificates or removal orders?  These would be at the Surrey History Centre at Woking but I had a look at their online catalogue with no success.  The Dorking Local History Group might have some documentation.  They have a data base so it's worth asking.

http://www.surreycommunity.info/dorkinglocalhistorygroup/

Not a great deal of help I know but maybe there's something there for you 

jane

[T.R.]

Jane
Thank you for looking and for replying.  You certainly seem to know your way around.

As far as I know Peter Ratcliff died intestate at Dorking in 1729.  His son Paul Radcliffe (brother of Peter Racliffe = Sara Boxshal applied for administration of the estate. 

Those are the administration papers that I am waiting for from London Metropolitan Archives. 

The LMA have advised that administration documents have not been put on- line in any form.  However, I was given the document number from another source so I have been able to make the request.

I have previously queried the History Centre at Woking about relocation records but they weren't able to help.  I am not sure whether I contacted Dorking or not but I will try there.

Mt thanks and my regards

t.r.
 

[Jane Masri]

Hi T.R.
Well, I've just discovered something interesting.  There is a gap in the Dorking burial registers.  The last entry is 16/6/1726 & picks up again 24/1/1732, that's why Peter doesn't appear on the Surrey Burial Index, 1729 falls within that 6 year gap 
I'm very curious as to your source for the LMA document number for the letters of Admon, as it might help solve a puzzle in my own research...do tell 

jane

[T.R.]

Jane

I received the administration document number form a contact who was searching in Surrey.  She thought we were searching the same line but we weren't.  I asked where she obtained the document number but she didn't reply.  However, I still have her email address so I will contact her again.

Aren't these gaps frustrating.   I seem to fall into a gap whichever way I go. records not filmed, documents missing ....

Following your advice, I am waiting on a reply from Dorking re the whereabouts of relocation records.

The burial records for Dorking that you checked are these Parish registers or cemetery records?  Thank you for checking for me. 

Regards

t.r.

[meles]

t.r.

Are there any tangible links between the Ratcliffes of Hampton and Kingston (which are very close to each other) and of those and the Ratcillfes of Dorking (which is some way away)? And those of Southwark, also a fair way away?

The name is not uncommon, and I fear there is you might be assuming a link where there is not one.

Sorry about that.

meles

[T.R.]

Meles

Thanks for the warning. 

I need to confirm whether or not there is a before it is accepted as fact.

However, the best available evidence to date suggests that there is a connection between Kingston and Dorking.

Whether it extends to Southwark is an assumption that needs to be verified on the evidence available.  However a Kingston/Dorking connection or a connection to somewhere else needs to be established.

Regards


t.r.