Navy Ordinary, Seaman, Mariner or Fisherman?

[Jan Ann]

HiYall 

I need help with one of my Rellies please 

James Webb born 1839 Greenwich District Kent. Father William Webb Gardner b abt 1817 (1841 Cen) and Elizabeth Mahoney, Ireland b abt 1822 (1841 cen) brother John Webb b abt 1841

Can't find the Webb family in 1851. In 1879 he married Ellen Jane Tivey - marriage cert reads - 03 April 1857 Marriage to James Webb at St Lukes Church, Charlton, London. James Webb of Full Age, Bachelor, Fisherman of Charlton, Father William Webb, Gardener. Ellen Jane Tivey, under full age, Spinster of Charlton, Father Francis Tivey, Pensioner R N. Married in the Parish Church according to the rites and Ceremonies of the Established Church by Banns by GB Backs(?) Curate. Signed by James Webb, Ellen by her mark, witnesses signed Francis Tivey and Mary Thompson.

Her father Francis served in the Royal Navy (see http://www.jativey.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/HeroFranTivey.htm - for more details) in 1861 Ellen Jane Webb nee Tivey is with her Mother Martha Tivey who is listed as a Lodger RG9/403; Folio: 32; Page: 2. She is listed as married and listed as a Fisherman's wife.  The only James Webb I can find on vessels is located on the Cressy RG9/4439; Folio: 90; Page: 13 and he is listed as single 'Ord' Royal Navy I know i am assuming this is her husband but it is the only one that fits

In 1871, the family are at 34 Whitworth Street, Greenwich East  RG10/760; Folio: 19; Page: 32 he is again listed as Fisherman.  In 1881  12 Williams Place, Deptford.  RG11/Piece: 718; Folio: 15; Page: 23 now listed as a Mariner.

Could someone look in Navy records for me (only where its free of course  ) and see whether he was ever in the Royal Navy? I have other researchers telling me he was in the Navy but all I can find is Fisherman or Mariner - apart from the guy in 1861 who may not be the correct James Webb!

Can Anyone help??

Cheers
Jan

[jim1]

Hello Jan
Mariner is a generic term for someone who worked on the sea.Had he been in the RN it would state that.The census was to include "those in abode on the night of the census"not those that lived there.he was probably at sea at the time on a fishing boat.
Jim

[Jan Ann]

Hi Jim

Thanks for your reply 

My problem is that Martha Tivey, Ellen Webb's mum was listed as a Mariner's wife in settlement papers, yet his record shows he was in Malta for the RN ( see http://www.jativey.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/HeroFranTivey.htm ) so what exactly does it mean 

[km1971]

Hi Jan

I cannot help with James' records, but Francis was in the Royal Marines and not the Royal Navy. Although they were both run from the Admiralty, and pensioners of both arms tend to be called Naval or even RN Pensioners, they were different.

Ken

[liverpool annie]

Hi Jan !

I couldn't see your James but maybe this site may give you some background and ideas !

http://website.lineone.net/~stephaniebidmead/index.htm

Annie 

[Jan Ann]

Hi Jan

I cannot help with James' records, but Francis was in the Royal Marines and not the Royal Navy. Although they were both run from the Admiralty, and pensioners of both arms tend to be called Naval or even RN Pensioners, they were different.

Ken

Hi Ken - Sorry about that! Im just not well up on my military - what was the difference between a Royal Marine and being in the Navy? Did they perfom a different role?

Hi Jan !

I couldn't see your James but maybe this site may give you some background and ideas !

http://website.lineone.net/~stephaniebidmead/index.htm

Annie

Thanks Annie - looks like a very interesting site

Cheers
Jan