Help with tracing my father's ancestors

[suzeh]

I wonder whether anyone can help me trace some Williamses (in Wales!)
My father, Harry Trevor Williams was born 19,10,1912, to Margaret neé Hopwood & John Williams, birth reg. Hawarden 11b 385.
John Williams, retired Colliery Manager died aged 60 in 1940.
I know that his father died young, and my mother tells me that his mother remarried, to a Mr. Millington.
When John Williams married Margaret Hopwood at the Primitive Methodist Tabernacle in Buckley on 24.10.1906, he was a 26yr old colliery manager living at Wood Lane, Hawarden. Edward Millington was his witness. His father was dead by then.
In the 1901 census, he was a 20yr old boarder in the home of Edward Millington, 47, at Pantile Cottages, Wood Lane.
I have found 2 birth registrations for John Williams in Q4 1880 - Chester 8a 457 & 8a 449.
I have found a 6month old John in the 1881 census at Pantile Houses, with 30yr old father John & 60yr old widowed grandfather William, but have no way of knowing if this is the correct person.
Any help would be very gratefully received.

[catwomyn]

I presume you have the marriage certificate for John Williams and Margaret Hopwood? (since you know the names of the witnesses).  It should have a name and occupation for his father even though he was deceased. That way you'll be more certain if the 1881 Census person is the right one.
If you have a subscription to Ancestry or similar then you can also check the 1891 census - if not, stick a request up and someone here will look it up for you.

Hope this helps

Cat

[suzeh]

Dear Catwomyn,
Thank you for your very prompt reply.
My problem is that the marriage certificate for my paternal grandparents does not state my great grandfather's name or profession - there are 2 dashes drawn through the relevant spaces. This is why I contacted rootschat.
As I am brand new on the site, could you please be a bit more specific about how to stick a request up?
I haven't got the 1891 censuses to hand, but seem to remember that they were not much help!
Yours, Suze

[Fisherman]

Hi Suze,
Welcome to RootsChat

Since there is no father named on the marriage certificate it would suggest that he was illegitimate.

Fisherman

[Subaru]

Hi Suzeh

Welcome to Rootschat

Try starting a thread on the Wales forum, maybe someone will have a cd with records of baptisms etc who may be able to look up names and dates for you.

Rosemary

[jorose]

I'd suggest that you repost the 1901 census info you have, and someone should be able to get the 1891 for you, that might shed more light.

freebmd shows in Chester district a possible marriage in 1884, Edward Millington and Mary Williams. It would be very interesting to see if John is with them in 1891 and how his relationship is described.

[Cas (stallc)]

Think this is the one mistranscribed...image states Millington

1901 - RG13; Piece: 3377; Folio: 94; Page: 22
Pantile Cottages, Wood lane, Town: Ewloe and Wood Lane  Hawarden
All born Hawarden, Flintshire

Edward Millingter 47 head
Mary Millingter 40 
Thomas W Millingter 24  son (son from first marriage with grandparents Weigh family, Wood lane, 1881? )
Edward Millingter 16, son
Mary Millingter 15  dau,
Charles Millingter 14 son,
Elizabeth Millingter 9 dau,
Sidney Millingter 8  dau,
John Williams 20  boarder

I cannot locate this family  in 1891, but they must be there unless missed off census? There is the birth of last child in area....Births Dec 1892  Millington  Sydney  Chester  8a 416

Think this is a good possibility for John and mother Mary in 1881, this would tie in with marriage in 1884
1881 -  RG11; Piece: 3565; Folio: 57; Page: 50
Pantile Houses,  Ewloe Town, Hawarden

All born Hawarden
John Williams   76 head, Collier
Sidney Williams 72  wife
Samuel Williams 45 son unmar collier
Mary Williams 20  grandau unmar
John Williams  9 mths, great grandson

Same area, Edward Millington boarder (wid) with Davison family, address Foxs Row, 1881, RG11; Piece: 3564; Folio: 38; Page: 3

Need to find 1891 to tie this family together, think they would still be at same address as 1901, Pantile Cottages, Wood lane or similar, any help appreciated, would someone check I have not missed them?

Millington as above, Hawarden, Flintshire

Cas
 

[jorose]

I checked the 1871 census, the wife of John Williams is indeed 'Sidney', which would tie in with 'Sidney Millington', the daughter from 1901.

Mary Williams, wife of Edward Millington, herself appears to have been possibly illegitimate - she's claimed as daughter in 1871, but is definitely granddaughter in 1861, possibly to Elizabeth, daughter of John and Sidney who was 19 in 1861.  They're at Pantile all the way back to 1841.

[Cas (stallc)]

Perhaps the marriage would help shed light on address in 1881, if same, as she possibly would still have been there in 1884 as there is this death for her very likely grandmother.  Looks unlikely they will be found in 1891.

Marriages Jun 1884   (same page)
MILLINGTON  Edward     Chester  8a 631   
Williams  Mary     Chester  8a 631

Deaths Mar 1888   WILLIAMS  Sidney  78  Chester  8a 301

Perhaps through address you can pin this family down, with certs, which would be less expensive in local registry, they normally do not charge, if cannot find what you need, rather than GRO. 

If you post on the Flint board some may have parish info that may help, also know where the local records are kept.

UPDATE It seems the records/reg district for this area 1837 - 1869 was Great Broughton.  From 1870 it is Chester.  There is an entry (only one)  in Sept Qtr 1860 for John Williams Great Broughton 8a 3_1 checked original page and it is unreadable.  I think his would be about correct for the 9mth old in census.  Census was taken 7th April 1861.

There are also Extracted records on IGI for John/Sidney children.  Seems her maiden name is Jones.

Hope this helps

Cas