Smiths of Bromley by Bow

[nirvana]

I am truly blessed having Clark and Smith as ancestors!

I hope I'm not pushing my luck but everyone was so helpful with my Clark question thought I would try again with my Smiths, so here goes.

Henry Smith born C1838 Bethnal Green found him on 41 census aged 4, HO107/695/6 folio 20 page 4, son of John aged 56 can't find marriage cert for John to ascertain if Mary aged 40 is wife or daughter.  By 51 census HO107/1555 folio 620 page 15 Henry is living with father John and his wife Elizabeth? Again can't find marriage cert.  By 61 Henry has aged 19 yearsand is married to Emma RG9/302 folio 140 page 4 (which I think is a transposing error as by 71 he had only aged one year!!)
I was told by family that Henry married an Emma Reid whose father was Thomas from Scotland - well that narrowed it down!!  Yes you've guessed it I can;t find a marriage cert for them either - no matter which way I spell 'Reid'.

In short I am having problems - any ideas??

Thanks for reading
Nirvana

[AMBLY]

Hi Nirvana

I took a look at the Census to get a "feel"....

1841: Devons Le West,  Bromley St Leonards. Middlesex
John SMITH 56 - Brick Layer
Mary 40
John 30
George 25 J Brick L.
Willm 18 J Brick L.
James 5
Henry 4
Sarah 3
Joseph 2
Mary Ann 1
Caroline YORK 15, F.S.
ALL Born Middlesex

1851: Devons Lane, Bromley St Leonards
Head: John SMITH 66, Master Bricklayer employing 8 men, b Ashen? Essex
Wife: Elizabeth 50, b Heaverhill Essex
Son: William 27
Son: James 15,
Dau: Sarah 12,
Son: Henry 13,
Son: Joseph 10,
Dau: Mary Ann 9
Son: William 7
Lodger: Mary Ann THOMPSON 71, Wid, Retired Publican, b Nibley Glouc.
All children Born Middlesex

Did you note  - there are two sons in the household named William ?  That might suggest 1 of them was not William's natural child but came to the marriage with a new wife?? Or it might be that William the younger is actually a Grandson....

Also the lodger, she may very well be a relative......have you already tried to follow her up?

1861: 4 Crown  ----------?, Bromley St Leonards, Middlesex
Head: Henry SMITH 22??, Bricklayers Labourer, b Bromley Middlesex
Wife: Emma SMITH 22, b Plaistow Essex
Son: Walter Thomas?? SMITH 2 months, b Bromley
This Census page is poor quality and hard to read in places - plus there is an enumerator's check mark thru the first digit in Henry's age - it is cetainley something-2 - could be 22 (look at how the 2 in the baby's age is written) but it could be 32 or 42, and as you say perhaps 42 is a transpostion of "24"


Now here's the luck......

Immediately above Henry and Emma on that 1861, same page AND at the same address is a seperate headed family....

Head: Thomas REID 65, Retired Seaman, b Plaistow Essex
Wife: Sarah 55, -------? Hants
Dau: Alice 24, unm,  -------------- -------------?, b Plaistow Essex
(Can't read Alice's occupation!. I think the surname is spelled REID - but it could be REED)


Cheers
AMBLY

[AMBLY]

1871:

Not sure of the street address? Leopolds John Court or something - but it is nr 4 - think  the same address as in 1861:

Head: Henry SMITH 34, Bricklayer, b Bromley
Wife: Emma SMITH 32, b Plaistow Essex
Son: Henry 9, b Bromley
Son: Alfred 7, b Bromley
Dau: Ada 4, b Bromley
Son: Walter 2, b Bromley (looks like the baby Walter John of 1861 has died?)

and again - in the same address /  House, Nr 4, seperate Headed is:
Head: Thomas READ 77, Seaman, b Plaistow Essex
Wife: Hannah?? 67, b Plaistow Essex

Cheers
AMBLY

[nirvana]

You are a star - I can't believe I have had this information all along!!  It never occurred to me to look down the census for any links and I should of known better as the same thing had happened on another census with father and son and their respective families living doors away from each other.

Can't thank you enough.  I hadn't considered looking at any connections to lodgers, which again I should of known better as one of my ancestors married her lodger!

A case of not seeing the wood for the trees, or the Reid for the Smiths!!!!!!!!!

Many thanks for using your time to help, I am really chuffed!!!

With much gratitude

Nirvana

[graham53]

Not sure if anyone wishes to pursue this, but the Smiths of Bromley by Bow are my ancestors and I have done quite a lot of research on them. I can add considerably to the information set out in the earlier messages. Let me know if you would like me to expand on this.

[nirvana]

Hi Graham

I would very much appreciate you sharing any information you have.  My own research has come a long way since my earlier pleas for help so with any luck we might be able to share information.  Look forward to hearing from you.

Kind regards

[graham53]

Great. It will take me a while to assemble the info but I will be back in touch shortly.

[nirvana]

Look forward to hearing from you.  Thanks

[graham53]

Here is a summary of what I have. I can flesh out details if you wish.

JOHN SMITH OF BROMLEY BY BOW

The John Smith who appears in the 1841 census was baptised at St Augustine’s Church, Ashen, Essex on 27 Feb. 1785. He died on 21 Jan 1866, at Devons Lane, Bromley. He was married twice: (1) Susannah Mayes on 4 Feb 1805 at St Mary’s, St Leonard’s Bromley; (2) Elizabeth Freestone on 29 March 1835 at St James's Clerkenwell.

Children of the first marriage:

(1) Mary b. 16 Sept 1807
(2) John b. 2 Mar 1810
(3) Caroline b. 14 Sept 1812
(4) George Henry b. 12 June 1815
(5) Eliza b. 2 Feb 1818
(6) Eliza b. 4 Sept 1820
(7) William b. 27 Dec 1823

I believe that Susannah Mayes was born in Ashen and baptised there on 23 April 1775; although that would mean her last child was born when she was about 48. (NB John Mayes married Elizabeth Smith in Ashen on 18 Feb 1798, so there seems to have been a degree of inter-marriage between the families).)

Children of second marriage:

(8)James Richard b. 27 March 1836
(9)Henry b. 15 April 1837
(10)Sarah Elizabeth  b. 31 July 1838
(11)Joseph Thomas b. 1 Oct 1839
(12)Mary Ann b. 2 April 1841
(13) Elizabeth Augusta b. 20 Sept 1842
(14) Walter b. 6 March 1844

I have the addresses of all the post 1837 births and the place of baptism for nearly all of the births.

At the time of the 1841 census Elizabeth was not at home. I believe she was living with her daughter Caroline (who was also not with the rest of the family) at Stewart’s Buildings, adjacent to Devons Lane, where John and the other children were living. This would explain why there was a servant there, Caroline York.

Going backwards: John Smith’s parents were John Smith, baptised Ashen 5 April 1761, and Sarah Golding, baptised 29 February 1759; they married on 13 August 1781 at St Augustine’s, Ashen.

Sarah’s parents were William and Susan Golding. The children of the marriage (and dates of baptism) that I have found were:

Catherine – 4 Nov 1781
John – 27 Feb 1785
James – 28 Jan 1787
Elizabeth – 5 July 1789
Frances – 10 April 1791
Mary – 21 July 1793
Henry – 19 June 1796
William – 28 October 1798
Sarah – 24 May 1801

This John Smith’s parents were John Smith, place of birth unknown, who married Catherine Golding at St Augustine’s, Ashen on 19 October 1755. Catherine Smith was buried at Ashen on 24 June 1781. The chikdren of this marriage (and dates of baptism) that I have found were:

Catherine - 19 Feb 1758
John  - 5 April 1761
James – 11 May 1767 (born) – married Ann Inch 30 Oct 1788 (John Smith is witness)
William (infant) buried 2 June 1781

So there seems to have been inter-mmariage between the Smith and Golding families as well. The Goldings seem to have been a prominent family in Ashen (and other nearby villages) and William Golding, father of Sarah Golding, was a bricklayer, who died in 1803. It may be that John Smith of Bromley, who was also a bricklayer, learned his trade from William, his grandfather.

It seems the John Smith who married Catherine Golding moved to Ashen from elsewhere, and I have not been able to get further back.

Hope this is of interest/use.