The Burt History

[beansgram]

hi sancti   do you know who that helen burt belongs to?  i have a peter drylie and helen burt there marriage is also on sp 11 17 1865.  i dont have the helen and peter who married in 1810 unles they are just with their families and i dont have their marriage info. so do you know who helen from 1810's parents are?  these people are part of the burts that i am trying to clean up in my file    beans

[tommacgregor]

Hello All,

As the questions and answers session continues in the background, I will continue with a bit more information that will hopefully throw some light on the matter. As I warned some time ago, this history was going to be a tough nut to crack, but, I'm perfectly happy to work with people to try to resolve as much as I can.

Sancti mentioned the Burt/Spowart connection a short time ago, so, maybe we should look at Peter Burt who was born on the 7th March, 1818 at Dunfermline. His parents were Peter Burt and ISABELLA SPOWART. Again, maybe a search for that marriage could be made through SP.

Peter Burt married Margaret Beveridge at Stealend, Dunfermline on the 27th December, 1839 . Her parents were, (would you believe it), Andrew Beveridge and EUPHAN (Euphemia) HYND! As many of you are aware, I wrote several pages on the Euphemia Hynd saga some time ago.

Peter Burt and Margaret Beveridge had the following children, and I want you all to take particular note of their second child:

Agnes Burt born 27th October, 1841 at Kelty, near Cowdenbeath (Beath).

ISABELLA SPOWART BURT born 9th September, 1843 at Edinburgh, Midlothian. I would hazard a guess and say that she was named after her Grandmother, Isabella SPOWART.

Peter J. Burt born 11th September, 1850 a Stealend, Dunfermline, Fife.

Catherine Burt born 23rd November, 1854 at Algona, Kossuth, Ohio, USA.

Yes folks, the last child on the above list was born in the good old US of A.
According to the details that I have, the family had emigrated from Scotland to America immediately after the birth of Peter J. Burt in Dunfermline in September, 1850.

Peter Burt, Senior, the husband of Margaret Beveridge passed away at the age of 69 in March, 1887 and his wife, Margaret passed away on the 25th of June, 1891, both at New Era, Clackamas, Oregon, USA.

There you have it. Without a doubt the SPOWART family were connected to the BURT's as well as the HYND's. I certainly knew that I was going to meet this tangling of individuals and see similar names croppung up everywhere - I wasn't kidding, was I?

Kind Regards,


Tom.

[beansgram]

hi tom since you are on peter burt and christian penmans children you had to notice the errors with their son alexander having 2 different wives at the same period in time with children born to both during the same time period.  a little history for those of you who dont understand i was sent info on peter and christians son alexander but with 2 different wives one being helen hynd who married an alexander burt sept 3 1807 in fife. the other is isobel allan who married an alexander burt may 1 1812. if we follow toms post then alexander and isobel belong to peter and christian so who does the other alexander belong to?  beans

[tommacgregor]

Hello Again,

I believe that I'm beginning to see just a bit of daylight in the tangle relating to the Burt Family and so, as always, I'll pass my findings over to you so that you can make your own minds up, but hopefully, will come forward with even more details.

"Sancti" was kind enough to look on SP for various births and was able to find a few. I couldn't quite understand how other children of the family had vanished from the face of the Earth, but suddenly realised that members of the family had actually emigrated to the USA and that I had a few extra details available to me. No, I'm not "taking a swipe" at SP, on the contrary, I have the greatest respect for their records.

Peter Burt was born on the 11th of December, 1795 and his wife, Isabella Spowart was born on the 4th May, 1792. They married on the 12th of March, 1817 at Blackburn in Dunfermline. Gee! It was difficult enough trying to extract those few basic facts!

Now, let's have another look at those pesky kids of their's, and we would expect them to start appearing shortly after the marriage of Peter and Isabella in 1817.

Peter Burt born 7th March, 1818 at Dunfermline, Fife.

Alexander Burt born 10th March, 1821 at Dunfermline, Fife. He died in a coalmining accident in Fife in the year 1845.

Isabella Burt born in 1826 and died in Algona, Iowa, USA in 1891

David Burt born 18th February, 1827 at Dunfermline, Fife. He died in Lowellville, Ohio, USA in the year 1856.

Andrew Burt born 18th August, 1829 at Dunfermline, Fife. He died on the 3rd March, 1909 at Lowellville, Mahoning County, Ohio in the USA.

Thomas Burt born 20th December, 1831 at Dunfermline, Fife.

Now, here's something to upset the applecart. I have an entry for a Thomas Burt born 20th December, 1834 at Townhill, Dunfermline dying on the 26th August, 1911 at Algona, Iowa! A mistake? A transcription error? Maybe "Beans" our friend in the USA., and descendant of these individuals can help?

Well, I've really enjoyed this part of the search, and with the assistance of "Sancti" slotted a few more details into the history of the Burt's. It's a true saying, "Two heads are better than one".

Kind Regards,


Tom.

[tommacgregor]

Hello All,

I can see that "Beans" is experiencing a few problems and so, since I'm working "happily" on it, I will give her a few answers as well as giving other researchers an insight as to what is going on.

You will recall, I'm sure, that I spoke of Alexander Burt, born 29th December, 1786 at Berrielaw in Dunfermline and died on 2nd June, 1827. He married an Isabell Allan on 1st May, 1812. One of their sons was Peter Burt who was born on the 7th October, 1817 at Baldridge, Dunfermline.

I think a lot of difficulty is being caused by misspellings on certain records, so let me unscramble them for you. Peter Burt certainly did marry an Annie Drylie, although some of the spellings show her as Ann Drayle. (It's all done to fool the troops, "Beans!). The marriage took place at Torryburn in Fife on 28th October, 1837.

Children:

Alexander Burt born 18th July, 1838 at Torryburn, Fife.
Helen (Nelly) Burt born 22nd October, 1840 at Torryburn, Fife.
Peter Burt born 26th November, 1842 at Torryburn, Fife.
Isabella Burt born about 1843 at Torryburn, Fife.

Now, let's take a look at one of the above children - Alexander Burt born 18th July, 1838. Some records say that he was born at Torryburn, but others say that he was actually born in Culross, which is only a spit away. Is it all that important to researchers?

What I'm having a look at is who Alexander actually married. I'm looking at some notes of mine that states that he married an Anne Reid on the 27th April, 1860 at Guildhall Street, Dunfermline. I would think that because of the date, a Marriage Record should be available somewhere.

If such a Marriage Record does exist, then we should find that they had the following children:

William Burt born 15th August, 1860.
Ann Burt born 21st April, 1862.
John Burt born 17th May, 1864.
David Burt born 21st July 1866.
Alexander Burt born 27th February, 1868
Peter Burt born 15th May, 1870.

Again, because we're looking at births in the mid to late 1800's, there should be reasonably accurate records of those births.

I sincerely hope that the above information will assist "Beans" and other researchers on RootsChat.

Kin Regards,


Tom.

[tommacgregor]

Hello All,

As I have already stated, there are many twists and turns in the history of the Burt family and I intimated in previous posts that you may be surprised at the connections to certain other families that I have mentioned on other Fife postings. The one that I now turn to, is one such connection that needs to be examined.

Catherine Burt was born on the 6th July, 1763 at Dunfermline to Peter Burt and his wife, Margaret Russell. She married John Allan on the 27th May, 1761 at Dunfermline.

Their children were:

James Allan born 8th May, 1783 at Baldridge, Dunfermline, Fife.
Peter Allan born 14th July, 1785 at Baldridge, Dunfermline.
Margaret Allan born 19th October, 1786 at Baldridge, Dunfermline.
John Allan born 26th February, 1789 at Baldridge, Dunfermline.
Isabella Allan born 7th March, at Baldridge, Dunfermline.
Jane Allan born 14th June, 1792 at Baldridge, Dunfermline.
David Allan born 16th June, 1793 at Baldridge, Dunfermline.
William Allan born 2nd April, 1795 at Baldridge, Dunfermline.
Christian Allan born 15th August, 1797 at Baldridge, Dunfermline.
Jean Allan born 11th June, 1802 at Baldridge, Dunfermline.

Although I could mention certain connections to families such as the Bowman's, I won't at this stage of the exercise because I want to draw your attention to the Isabella Allan shown above - the one who was born the 7th March, 1791. Could she have any connection to the Isabella Allan who married Alexander Burt on the 1st May, 1812 at Dunfermline. The answer is an emphatic YES, she certainly was, and once again researchers can see how I am patiently connecting different families - and doing it on one specific Topic, which should gladden the heart of Pam, our Moderator.

Again, I would ask you to be patient and not insert postings between these enties for a couple of days or so. Why? It may be useful if those interested researchers out there could print out or scan and print the History of the Burt's, and then insert them into their own Family Tree's, thus saving an awful lot of work.

Kind Regards,


Tom.

[tommacgregor]

Hello All,

On a previous posting, I mentioned that Peter Burt married Isabella Spowart on the 12th March, 1817 at Blackburn in Dunfermline. Since I gave quite a bit of information about Peter Burt, I believe that it may be of some assistance if I were to give you some background information about his wife, Isabella.

Isabella was the daughter of Joseph SPOWART and his wife, Isabel HUNTER.Joseph had been born on 23rd July, 1750 at Torryburn in Fife and Isabel around 1753, also from Torryburn. The couple married on 22nd October, 1774 at Torryburn in Fife.

Their children:

David Spowart christened 31st December, 1775 at Torryburn, Fife.
Thomas Spowart christened 12th April, 1778 at Torryburn, Fife.
Marjory Spowart christened 23rd April, 1780 at Torryburn, Fife.
Grizzel (Grizal?) Spowart christened 19th May, 1782 at Torryburn, Fife.
Elizabeth Spowart christened 27th June, 1784 at Torryburn, Fife.
Helen Spowart christened 21st December, 1788 at Dunfermline, Fife.
Isabella (Isabell?) Spowart christened 6th May, 1794 at Dunfermline, Fife.
Elspet Spowart christened 21st July, 1794 at Dunfermline, Fife.
Jean Spowart christened 6th November, 1797 at Dunfermline, Fife.

It is interesting to note that Isabella died at Lowellville, Mahoning County, Ohio, USA in the year 1856.

I noted the correspondence between "Beans" and "Sancti" and their reference to the Spowarts. I would hope that this extra bit of information will aid them in seeing the connections between the families.

Kind Regards,


Tom.

[sancti]

Additional birth for

18/08/1845 BURT MARGARET born to PETER BURT/MARGARET BEVERIDGE FR535 U Beath (Fife) /FIFE

[tommacgregor]

Hello "Sancti",

Yes, that entry agrees with what I have. The details in my files are:

Agnes Burt born 27th October 1841 at a place called Stealend, Beath, Fife.

Isabella Burt born 9th September, 1843 at Stealend, Beath, Fife

Margaret Burt born 18th August, 1845 at Stealend, Beath, Fife.

Peter Burt born 11th September, 1850 at Stealend, Beath, Fife.

Catherine Burt born 23rd November, 1854 at Stealend, Beath, Fife.

That now gives us a pretty good snapshot of the family of Peter Burt and Margaret Beveridge who married at Beath near Dunfermline on the 21st December, 1839. Other researchers are now in a possition to reearch the individuals in the family for their personal records.

It may interest them to know that the second child on the list, Isabella was actually christened Isabella Spowart Burt. Now we know where she got the Spowart name, - her Grandmother!

Kind Regards,


Tom.