James Rutherford's Parents

[johnna j]

Hi Everyone,
Can someone have a look at this problem and give me there thoughts on it please.
I have found two James Rutherfords in the 1841 Census, both born about 1796, there ages are indentical at 45, and same parish, all Saints, Newcastle, Northumberland.
I have identified the James who is married to Barbara as my 3xGrandfather because of the line though there son John....However, my problem is, I have looked on the IGI for the birth of James (to find his parents) and found only  one birth for James on the 12 Aug 1793, at All Saints, mother Anne, Father James, this of course may not be the correct parents for my James, so , if possible I'm looking for a fresh pair of eyes to look at this and maybe find another set of parents, although, that may not resolve this either, but I would appreciate any thoughts.
Regards
Johnna J

[Michael Dixon]

Johnna,

You need more than this... but....

The convention of naming your children to a set pattern
( sometimes referred to as the English Naming Pattern) required a couple to
1) name first son, after his father's father..
2) second son after his mother's father..
6) name first dtr after her mother's mother
7) second dtr after her father's mother..

IF the Rutherford couple James/Isabella ( Census 1841 846/2 31-19)were following the ENP and IF they had had no infantil deaths, by 1841, then James's parents would have been James and Ann, and Isabella's, Robert and Sarah !

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The Census 1841 procedure of rounding down the ages of adults to the nearest multiple of 5 yrs, sort of messing up getting birth years for folk.

Both the draper James ( C1841 845/8 9-11)and the keelman James could have been 49,48,47,46 or 45, to get recorded as 45 yrs.

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With both in "good" occupations, early Trade Directories might give clues about the respective families ?

--------------------------------------------

Michael Dixon

[johnna j]

Hello Michael,
Thanks for your reply, your correct I will need more than your imput, but, thats a very interesting point about the English naming Pattern which I never knew about and must keep in mind.
I knew about the rounding down the ages in C1841, that's why I considered James birth on this Census as about 1796 could have been the James birth that I found at All Saints in 1793, but, I now understand and that's wrong as well.
Can you give me the link to the Trade Directories Michael please, I may get some info from them,
Thanks Again
Johnna J

[Michael Dixon]

J.J.

Today (in Tyne & Wear Archives) I saw Richardson's trade directory of 1838 for Newcastle & Gateshead...

Jas Rutherford, Linen and Woollen Draper, 15 Cloth Market.

MR James Rutherford, Byker Buildings.  ( no trade listed, maybe he was simply.. gentry !


In the "Gerneral Directory of Newcastle and Gateshead 1824" I could see no relevant Rutherfords.


The Leicester University web site with searchable directories... I don't think it goes back earlier than the two above.

Michael Dixon

[WolfieSmith]

Hello Johanna,

Baptisms from Newcastle St. Nicholas, your family from the 1841 census.

6 Oct 1826 Mary, daughter of James and Barbara Rutherford of Old Flesh Market, Draper.  (born 11 Nov 1819 according to IGI, doesn't say where)
6 Oct 1826, John, son of James and Barbara Rutherford of Old Flesh Market. Draper. (born 31 Jan 1824 according to IGI, doesn't say where)
3 Dec 1828, Barbara Jane, daughter of James and Barbara Rutherford of Old Flesh Market, Draper.
29 May 1832, Susannah Elizabeth, d. of James & Barbara Rutherford of Cloth Market, Linen Woollen Draper.

1851 census : 54 Bridge St., Wednesbury, Staffordshire.
James Rutherford, head, 56, Woollen Draper, b. Northumberland Cockhill
Ellenor Rutherford, wife, 44, b. Yorks Fernsley
Susannah Rutherford, daughter, 19, Milliner, b. Northumberland Newcastle,
Robert Rastrick, son, 19, Iron Roller, b. Yorks Hull
Benjamin Rastrick, son, 15, at school, b. Yorks Fernsley.

Presumably James wife Barbara had died, and he had married widow Ellenor Rastrick (and moved to Staffs)

1861 census : Somerset Place, Elswick, Newcastle,
Algernon M. Pollack, head, 37, Bankers Clerk, b. Newcastle,
Susannah E. Pollack, wife, 27, b. Newcastle,
James Rutherford, father in law, 66, Commission Agent, b. Cockhill,

No idea where Cockhill, Northumberland is, I'm sure somebody on here will know.

Alan.

[johnna j]

Hi Michael,
Thanks for checking the T&W Archives for me.
It looks as though my James was a man of means by having a business in the Cloth Market, I''ve heard of the Green/Bigg Market,but, not the Cloth Market.
I'll check the Leicester University Web site as you suggested.
Thanks Again
Johnna J

[johnna j]

Hi Alan,
Thanks for all of this information.....Great !
About the Baptism info.....you have found a Susannah Elizabeth, who is new to me....I already have Mary b1821 (you stated 1826) John B1826, Barbara Jane b1828, so, Susannah is a bonus for me.
I never found James R in any other (1851/61) Census, and God I tried.However, your recent findings is good news.
I do know that James Died in 1871, now I need to find out when his wife Barbara died....All of this is very helpful Alan.
Like yourself I am not aware of a place called Cockhill (and I live in Durham)
However, my guess is that the Northumberland expert, Michael Dixon will know exactly where it is.
Johnna J

[cavvytri]

Hi Johnna
There is a Cockhill Farm in Shilvington in the parish of Morpeth, Northumberland. Incidentally there is a big department store on Morpeths main shopping street called "Rutherfords".
Good Luck
Cav

[Michael Dixon]

There is that Cockhill identified by cav. There is another one , farther north, just south of Wooler, north of Rothbury. (parish of Alnham)

See them on Google.Maps or Genuki site.

Both of these were sometime referred to as Cockhill Farm.

Godfrey Watson in his book" Goodwife Hot".."Northumbersland Past as shown in it's Place Names", writes that communities with the word "cock" in their names, referr to "game birds, and particularly Woodcock".

Michael Dixon