George W Betham

[AMBLY]

A Google search shows a number of people over time have asked the same question (abt the Castle Garden codes) Haven't found the definitive answer ...but...

I think the numerical Destination codes used on their database , are their own invention - a time saving device they have come up with to speed up transcriptions. I did read somewhere, that someone figured ouit all people with same destination of  USA had the same code.  And it looks like, all the people on the BOTHNIA who were intending to return  to England, had the code 894 attributed (one of the people next to George was an Edward HALL, if you wanted to look that up).

The particular manifest this George is on, is very sparse in keeping with the standard of the times :  name, gender, age, brief occupation, Nationality, and Nation in which he intends to reside (in this case, it is the last one which attracts the 894 code).

Unfortunately, unless you can identify any of the other passengers around him, with whom he may be travelling - I doubt there is much chance of ever disovering for sure why he went - well, certainley not from the shipping records, anyway. If he is your George, he travelled as a Farmer - perhaps he was on a business trip related to his work. Or maybe he went for a holiday (which may have included a visit to family who had immigrated earlier). Or maybe he went over to see if he would like there permanently....

Do you know what became of daughter Mary?

Cheers
AMBLY

[tsumi]

Your very detailed answer seems to be quite correct with regard to the Castle Garden web site,I would never have found that ,with regard to the number system.
I believe that some distant family had emigrated but have found no details as yet,nor have I found any death in England for any of them apart from George H, born 1888,and Margaret,1886.Two of the three siblings.This is what leads me to believe about them emigrating.
 
I am going to have to put my thinking cap on tight and ponder my next move.

Many thanks once again,

Tsumi

[Cotswolder]

Hi tsumi,

I am a little late coming into this thread but we may have a link.

I have the same George Belham born in West Bradenham, Norfolk in 1853. He was first married to a relative of mine one Jane DOBSON nee KETTERINGHAM. I have them together in the 1881 UK census living in Yorkshire and then travelling to Canada in July 1884 arriving in Quebec aboard the SS Peruvian from Liverpool. There were two children with them.

Topsy (born 1870) & George H (born 1875). Both were born DOBSON but have the name BELHAM on the 1881 UK census.
I have also found these 4 in the 1891 Canada census living in York East, Ontario with the transcribed name of BELLAME.

I have not found any thing else as this is my first look at this family outside the UK.
I do know that Jane was considerably older that George so it is possible she died and George married again.

The information Ambly has entered showing a marriage with George's parents being William & Charlotte ties up with my family.

What I would like to do is find a death for Jane and information regarding Topsy & George Jnr

Do you think this ties up with your family ?

[tsumi]

Hi
Many thanks for the message and details ,but after much deliberating,I don,t believe that this George Belham belongs to my family tree .
Good luck with your research.
Tsumi

[AMBLY]

Hi Tsumi
Hope your research on ther BETHAM's is going well ? 

Hi Cotswolder

In 1930, your George H BELHAM , the son: advised of his stepfather's death, so he (the son) was living at that time  .

In 1895, George BELHAM Snr, married Harriet YOUNG. So  possibly his first wife Jane died between 1884 and 1895, possibly in York County Ontario.

Was your Topsy DOBSON/BELHAM  born 1 March or May  1870? Or in June?
I see her birth is registered in the Jun Qtr 1870 on FreeBMD.

I think she may have married an Earnest GARBUTT and is found on the 1901 (Lopsy GARBUTT)  & 1911 (Topsy GARBOTT)  Census' of Ontario - in the 1901 she gives her birth as 1 Mar 1870, and in 1911 she says she was born in June - same woman on both Census though. You can look her up freely via this site and see both transcriptions and the original images.

http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/index.html

Someone has this same  GARBUTT in  online trees (mostly created from around year 2002)  - but names Earnest's  wife as Elizabeth Topsy DOBSON, b England May 1870 , no place or parents names given for her and no death date either. It looks to me like this is likely to be  your Topsy and  the tree owner had no idea she was known also as BELHAM or that Elizabeth was not her registered name.

http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/k/e/l/Trish-Keleher-ON/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0136.html
http://www.family-maw.co.uk/TNG/getperson.php?personID=I10992&tree=Maw
http://genforum.genealogy.com/maw/messages/69.html

Out of interest, when I looked for your Topsy's birth reg. on freeBMD, I searched without putting in a year - only 2 came up - yours 1870 in Wisbeach and another in Guisborough Yorkshire, 1884 - Topsy Maud DOBSON.

Your  George and Jane etc, are in the Giusborough Reg district in 1881 with chd Topsy & George, and also an older son of Jane's, Robert DOBSON age25. A Topsy Maud DOBSON  also ended up in Ontario Canada and married an Earnest WILSON there - I'm wondering is she related and thought possibly she is a daughter of Robert DOBSON, the older brother of your Topsy and George? Maybe you are already aware of all that though.

Cheers
AMBLY

[Cotswolder]

Hi Ambly,

Many thanks

I am aware of most of this and I have the early stuff regarding Jane and George Belham and Jane's first husband John DOBSON. She had several other children with John but only the last two travelled to Canada with Jane & George. I have found them in the 1891 Canada Census so Jane must have dies between 1891 & 1895. This I have yet to find.

Jane was a lot older that George, 22 years in fact, but I think she must have lied about her age whilst with him because there is only a 10 - 12 year gap in the 1881 & 1891 census.

I have seen the other tree regarding Topsy and Ernest GARBUTT. The other son George Henry I have yet to trace.

Only just catching up with is line so will keep searching then repost when I get stuck.

Regards, Bruce

[Cotswolder]

Hi Cotswolder

In 1930, your George H BELHAM , the son: advised of his stepfather's death, so he (the son) was living at that time  .

Hi Ambly,

The stepson for my George BELHAM was a George Henry DOBSON. It is likely he used that name.
Would it be possible to see if you can find him  ??

Regards, Bruce

[AMBLY]

Hi Cotswolder

I am pretty certain, George Henry married an Englishwoman named Annie M and they had a daughter born 1899 in Ontario named Fidelia Belham DOBSON. . And if I'm right,  they keep trying to connect you to Tsumi's family as I think  Fidelia's middle name has been misindexed on the birth records as "Betham"      

I'm going to PM you, as I think it might be worth your while placing your own post on the Canadian Immigrants board to expose your request to more help than I can give.

Meantime, look up the 1901 for George H DOBSON here, in Ontario:

Ward 1 Toronto, East York, Ontario
Head: George H DOBSON age 26, Day Labourer, b Jun 25, 1874 England, immigrated 1886
Wife: Annie M DOBSON age 27, b Mar 7, 1874 England, immigrated 1889
Dau: Fidellia DOBSON age 1, b Jun 24, 1899 Ontario

Cheers
AMBLY

[Cotswolder]

Hi Ambly,

Not sure if you can help further on this.

I said in my previous post that George BELHAM and wife Jane travelled to Canada with their two youngest children Topsy & George.

I have now looked thoroughly through the UK and Canada census for 1891 and I am convinced that all Jane's children by her first husband John Dobson  joined them in Canada. What I cannot find is the details of their travel.

In order:-

1. Jane's daughter Sarah, husband George GRIFFIN and children Harriet, Hannah & Charles are all in York.  Charles was born in Canada but the other two travelled over.

2. Sons John W DOBSON, wife Alice & children Mary, John & Henry ( Henry was born in Canada)

3. Son Robert DOBSON, wife Eliza (Lizzie) and children John, Maud, William, Alfred & Mary (The latter two were born in Canada)

4. Daughter Elizabeth, husband James DANIELS and children William, Eliza Jane, Freddy & Leonard (The latter two born in Canada)

5.  Daughter Esther, husband James WILSON an child William.

Going by dates various children were born these 5 families must have travelled of between 1885 and 1891, however, I cannot find and families with these names in Passenger lists, unless I am missing something.

I am wondering if you or anyone else can help find ant travel details.

Many thanks in advance

Bruce