Herbert George Crawley birth & parents lookup

[Starteck2002]

This one isn't so far back but has me stumped :-(

Herbert George Crawley born 1892, married to Edith Mary Bridger on May 10th 1913.  Married in Chichester.  First child born in Chichester, address at the time was 116 Orchard Street, Chichester.  They married at St Peter the Less.

Here's where the confusion kicks in....

On the marriage cert Herberts father is stated as 'Bertie Churcher' (possibly a grocers assistant but hard to read).

Because he married in Chichester i am presuming that is wher he was born.  I have his service record that shows he lived in chichester and that he was a carpenter.

To cofuse things even more....

this census: Class: RG13; Piece: 977; Folio: 49; Page: 26. (Havant, hampshire)

There is a Herbert Crawley listed in the transcript as 'Grandson' but if you look at the original document it says 'S. Son' (step son?) - the ages seem to correlate this too.

If this IS my Herbert, i am VERY confused. 

If anyone can help solve this riddle and put me back on track i'd really appreciate it.

Dave

[Starteck2002]

Found something :-)

Surname  First name(s)    District  Vol  Page 

~~~~~~~~
Marriages Dec 1897   (>99%)
~~~~~~~~
 
Crawley  Elizabeth    Portsea  2b 1038   
Penn  Alan Angus     Portsea  2b 1038   

So i presume that the following scenario is correct:

Elizabeth Crawley had an illigitimate  son (Herbert Crawley) with Berti Churcher (as per Herberts marriage certificate).

When Herbert is 5 years old she marries Alan Angus Penn


So now i need to know....

details of Herberts Father - his birth entry so i can order a birth certificate....
   

[lizdb]

The first and most important lesson in Genealogy is - NEVER ASSUME ANYTHING!

In your first post you are "assuming" that because he married in Chichester he was born there.  THere is no evidence of this.

Secondly, you "presume" Herbert is a son of an Elizabeth Crawley - but where is the evidence of that? I would guess there are dozens of young ladies (or even not so young!) around with a surname Crawley who could have been his mother, so why do you assume it is this Elizabeth?

Or have I missed something? I have a feeling I might (!)- does the census ref give step dad as Mr Penn? I will take a look ....

(btw where did his year of birth come from?)

[Starteck2002]

Hi Lizdb

Birth year is derived from his marriage certificate (i have a copy of it) and his service record.

Marriage certificate states his father as 'Bertie Churcher' - i can't find any info on him. 

Looking at the census i posted in first post, Alan Angus Penn is down as the  step father, the mans wife, Elizabeth Penn was a CRAWLEY when she married him.

To me, logic dictates that Herbert has been given his mothers name of Crawley.  I've been working on this one for a while and that is the best i can come up with.

[lizdb]

OK, I am a bit more with it now! (Sorry)

1901
Alan A Penn 29 Carpenter bn Blendwoeth
Elizabeth 32 wife bn Portsmouth
Ethel 2 bn Havant
Geoffrey A 1 bn HAvant
Herbert Crawley 9 s son bn Havant
George Green 21 boarder

I wonder if Elizabeth had been married before or if Herbert was illegit.

[Starteck2002]

I can't find any marriage for Elizabeth prior to 1897 but it is interesting that Alan is a carpenter - this is also the trade that Herbert followed and his son (my Grandfather 'Leonard' followed too).

It still doesn't lead me to a GRO ref number so i can get his birth certificate though :-(

[lizdb]

Here's something else intereting - though may not be linked.

I was trying to find Elizabeth Crawley in 1891. The only Crawley girl of the right-ish age born in Portsmouth is an Annie. Possible it is her - more research needed to confirm one was or t'other, but look at the entry:

RG12 866 63 29
17 Victoria Terrace Portsea
James Crawley 48 Shipwright bn Kent Sheerness
Emma 47 wife bn Portsmouth
Mary Penn dtr married 25 bn Kent Deptford
Annie dtr single 22 bn Portsmouth
Eleanor dtr15 bn Portsmouth
Margaret dtr 13  "
MAry A McInerney stepdaughter 13 bn Cape Toen Sth Africa
John Beere boarder 19

Another Crawley married to a Penn!
(and if this IS your family, looks like your search may take you via South Africa!!)

[lizdb]

There is a birth of a Herbert George Crawley in 1892 - but it is in Derbyshire! (ref 7b 510, Oc/Nov/Dec 1892, Derby reg distr)

So this one could be the Herbert George that married in Chichester in 1913 with the dad Bertie Churcher.

I wonder if there are two HGC's around, or if 'our' one was actually born in Derbyshire?

[lizdb]

Definitely two around - found the Derbyshire one in 1901, still in Derbyshire with his parents and siblings. His dad seems to be Herbert Crawley.
No reason to suppose he would be called Herbert Churcher by the time young Herb marries.

So looks like we can rule that one out, but worth keeping on back burner.