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Author Topic: Thomas Barwell b 1872 Greenwich - to Boer War?  (Read 3720 times)

Offline IgorStrav

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Thomas Barwell b 1872 Greenwich - to Boer War?
« on: Monday 30 June 08 15:06 BST (UK) »
Hi all

Can you give me some advice?  I have the following relation who disappears:

Thomas Barwell
b 11th May, Greenwich, Kent
Illegitimate son of
Louisa Barwell (c1853, Gretton, Northants)

He is on the 1881 Census in Greenwich with his grandmother Elizabeth Barwell and uncle Samuel Barwell (mistranscribed as Barwill, and with Samuel incorrectly shown as his father).
RG11/719 Folio 59 Page 45


At this time, his mother, Louisa, has just married to Alfred Augustus Blackmore, and is in Battersea with him, and a newborn daughter - perhaps Thomas had been sent off to Granny for the birth.
RG11/655 Folio 28 Page 49



I think I have Thomas on the 1891 as a Barman (born c 1874 Lewisham, which isn't quite right, but could be near enough) in Chelsea.  It struck me that if he had been living with his mother and stepfather in Battersea in the years between 1881 and 1891, then this could have been a local job for him.
RG12/60 Folio 132 Page 61

However, after that, he vanishes.  There is a Thomas Barwell born in West London, who is in Deptford with wife Louisa in the 1901, but because his place of birth is shown very clearly as Shepherd's Bush, I don't think this can possibly be my Thomas - as any Londoner will appreciate.

It's been suggested that Thomas could either have emigrated, or perhaps joined the army (Boer War).

How would I go about finding out about that?  Boer War records at Kew, or are they available anywhere else?

thank you in anticipation for your advice.
Pay, Kent. 
Barham, Kent. 
Cork(e), Kent. 
Cooley, Kent.
Barwell, Rutland/Northants/Greenwich.
Cotterill, Derbys.
Van Steenhoven/Steenhoven/Hoven, Nord Brabant/Belgium/East London.
Kesneer Belgium/East London
Burton, East London.
Barlow, East London
Wayling, East London
Wade, Greenwich/Brightlingsea, Essex.
Thorpe, Brightlingsea, Essex

Offline MarieC

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Re: Thomas Barwell b 1872 Greenwich - where did he go?
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 01 July 08 11:44 BST (UK) »
Hi IgorStrav,

I don't know about Boer War records, but just a few other thoughts -

*  Have you checked British emigration records post 1890?  Apart from being at Kew, they are on Find My Past.

*  Have you looked for a marriage for your Thomas?  You may find him marrying Louisa ?   , or maybe there are two Thomas Barwells marrying in London in the late 19th century, which may confirm or otherwise that the one on the census is not yours.

*  Is the one on the 1901 census the right age?  It's just possible that there could have been a mistranscription of place of birth.  Don't rule him out completely until you find something that indicates definitely that he is not your man...

MarieC
Census information is Crown copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Martins in London and Wales, Lockwoods in Yorkshire, Hartleys in London, Lichfield and Brighton, Hubands and Smiths in Ireland, Bentleys in London and Yorkshire, Denhams in Somerset, Scoles in London, Meyers in London, Cooks in Northumberland

Offline IgorStrav

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Re: Thomas Barwell b 1872 Greenwich - to Boer War, how can I find out?
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 01 July 08 12:09 BST (UK) »
Thanks for your response, Marie.

You are right that I could spend £7 checking if the 1901 Shepherd's Bush Thomas is mine - just to finally draw a line under it, right or wrong.

I will have another look at marriage records, to see if there is another possible, and then the happy couple spend the 1901 in the proverbial cupboard, somewhere.

I will also check Find My Past, though I have done this in the past with no success.

Any help from anyone else re Boer War records?  Any help much welcomed
Pay, Kent. 
Barham, Kent. 
Cork(e), Kent. 
Cooley, Kent.
Barwell, Rutland/Northants/Greenwich.
Cotterill, Derbys.
Van Steenhoven/Steenhoven/Hoven, Nord Brabant/Belgium/East London.
Kesneer Belgium/East London
Burton, East London.
Barlow, East London
Wayling, East London
Wade, Greenwich/Brightlingsea, Essex.
Thorpe, Brightlingsea, Essex

Offline MarieC

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Re: Thomas Barwell b 1872 Greenwich - to Boer War?
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 01 July 08 13:19 BST (UK) »
My curiosity got the better of me and I had a look at freebmd.  The only Thomas Barwell which that site has marrying in London in the 1890s married in Wandsworth in the June 1899 quarter - the area seems likely.  The women on the page are Jane Bailey and Annie Dwyer - no Louisa! 

I am thinking you are right and the other one is not yours - this one may very well be - doesn't solve where he went to next, though!

If you were to get this marriage cert and then search for his wife in 1901, if you found her, that may be an indication that he had gone to the Boer War.

No death in London fitting the criteria for your Thomas.

MarieC
Census information is Crown copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Martins in London and Wales, Lockwoods in Yorkshire, Hartleys in London, Lichfield and Brighton, Hubands and Smiths in Ireland, Bentleys in London and Yorkshire, Denhams in Somerset, Scoles in London, Meyers in London, Cooks in Northumberland

Offline IgorStrav

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Re: Thomas Barwell b 1872 Greenwich - to Boer War?
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 01 July 08 13:33 BST (UK) »
thank you for your interest Marie, this is one which leaves me itchy to resolve (if you know what I mean - especially as I walk past where he was born every couple of weeks)

I could certainly look for a Mrs Barwell in the 1901, either Jane or Annie, couldn't I, even ahead of the certificate (I had seen this marriage, and thought, like you, it might be a possible).

Will keep you posted

 :)
Pay, Kent. 
Barham, Kent. 
Cork(e), Kent. 
Cooley, Kent.
Barwell, Rutland/Northants/Greenwich.
Cotterill, Derbys.
Van Steenhoven/Steenhoven/Hoven, Nord Brabant/Belgium/East London.
Kesneer Belgium/East London
Burton, East London.
Barlow, East London
Wayling, East London
Wade, Greenwich/Brightlingsea, Essex.
Thorpe, Brightlingsea, Essex

Offline MarieC

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Re: Thomas Barwell b 1872 Greenwich - to Boer War?
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 02 July 08 08:35 BST (UK) »
Yes, you've got me interested now, IgorStrav!  :)

Do let me know if you find a likely Mrs Barwell in the 1901.  If not - the mystery continues!

MarieC
Census information is Crown copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Martins in London and Wales, Lockwoods in Yorkshire, Hartleys in London, Lichfield and Brighton, Hubands and Smiths in Ireland, Bentleys in London and Yorkshire, Denhams in Somerset, Scoles in London, Meyers in London, Cooks in Northumberland

Offline IgorStrav

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Re: Thomas Barwell b 1872 Greenwich - to Boer War?
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 02 July 08 11:16 BST (UK) »
Marie, I don't think Mrs Barwell was the Jane Bailey from the register page - I think she married William Fowler, as I can see them in Battersea on the 1901.

So Thomas Barwell (whichever one he was) married Annie Dyer.

Can't see a Mrs Annie Barwell in the 1901 as yet, but of course in theory she could be anywhere in the country.

I will see if I can find Annie in the 1891, which might be an additional clue - perhaps she was living next door to the pub in which I believe my Thomas Barwell was working????  Stranger things have happened!!!

 ;)
Pay, Kent. 
Barham, Kent. 
Cork(e), Kent. 
Cooley, Kent.
Barwell, Rutland/Northants/Greenwich.
Cotterill, Derbys.
Van Steenhoven/Steenhoven/Hoven, Nord Brabant/Belgium/East London.
Kesneer Belgium/East London
Burton, East London.
Barlow, East London
Wayling, East London
Wade, Greenwich/Brightlingsea, Essex.
Thorpe, Brightlingsea, Essex

Offline MarieC

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Re: Thomas Barwell b 1872 Greenwich - to Boer War?
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 03 July 08 03:08 BST (UK) »
That's a good idea, to check the 1891 for Annie!

If you can't find either of them in the 1901 (and it IS your man), I guess that's a strike against him going to the Boer War!

Look forward to further instalments of this mystery!

MarieC
Census information is Crown copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Martins in London and Wales, Lockwoods in Yorkshire, Hartleys in London, Lichfield and Brighton, Hubands and Smiths in Ireland, Bentleys in London and Yorkshire, Denhams in Somerset, Scoles in London, Meyers in London, Cooks in Northumberland

Offline IgorStrav

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Re: Thomas Barwell b 1872 Greenwich - to Boer War?
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 03 July 08 21:32 BST (UK) »
Sadly there are lots and lots of Annie Dyers in London in the 1891 Census, none of them living next door to my (or any!) Thomas Barwells.

It's off to the GRO for me, for the marriage certificate.  Will have to spend the £7 for it, as I can't give Thomas's father for a reference point (don't know who it was) and will be relying on some witness names I can recognise!!


Further instalments to follow.......or not  :(
Pay, Kent. 
Barham, Kent. 
Cork(e), Kent. 
Cooley, Kent.
Barwell, Rutland/Northants/Greenwich.
Cotterill, Derbys.
Van Steenhoven/Steenhoven/Hoven, Nord Brabant/Belgium/East London.
Kesneer Belgium/East London
Burton, East London.
Barlow, East London
Wayling, East London
Wade, Greenwich/Brightlingsea, Essex.
Thorpe, Brightlingsea, Essex
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