Author Topic: Buried at Sea Gallipolli  (Read 4630 times)

Offline *sparkle*

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Re: Buried at Sea Gallipolli
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 13 August 08 17:06 BST (UK) »
You wont know for sure unless you can find his service records.

My G.G. Uncle was buried at sea after fighting at Gallipoli. He was evacuated on a hospital ship but died 5 days later of septacaemia. As was told to me on another forum when I questioned if this was common parctice; he unlike many ohter men who went missing, at least he would have been attended to by a chaplain and had a service prior to his burial at sea.

My Uncle fought in the NZEF and so his records were wlll preserved. Fingers crossed you can get a hold of Thomas Williams records. Do you have his service number, or as mentioned have you looked him up on the CWGC website. I had a quick look and coulkdn't find him.

But as Steve100 mentioned there is a chance he could have been on the Troopship Royal Edward. :(

Tx

Offline wilcoxon

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Re: Buried at Sea Gallipolli
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 13 August 08 20:08 BST (UK) »
Copy of the reply from SW Borderers museum.

Thank you for your enquiry.  As you say we do not hold the service documents of men who served in the regiment here.  These if they have survived, are held by The National Archives, Kew and are presently being digitised - they have reached 'L' so you have some time to wait I'm afraid, unless you can get to Kew in person.
 
According to the Medal Index Card for Thomas Williams (www.documentsonline.nationalarchives.gov.uk) he was awarded the 1915 Star, the British War medal and the Victory medal.  He landed in Gallipoli on 7th April 1915 and died of wounds on 26th August 1915 and was buried at sea.  He is commemorated on the Helles Memorial, Turkey.
 
From our researches I can add that he was born in Pennsylvania, USA.
 
We hold a copy of the 2nd Battalion South Wales Borderers war diary (there is also a copy at Kew), Thomas is not mentioned by name but for a donation to museum funds I can send you copies of the pages for April to August 1915. 
 
He died of wounds - we do not know exactly when he was wounded but the battalion was heavily involved in fighting on Hill 70.  The war diary states:
 
Operation Map 1/20,000 sheets
Anafarta Laghir and Keriga Dere
'Casualties will be evacuated from First Air Posts to the Dressing Stations established at rear of Hill 53.'
 
We do not hold maps here, the National Archives at Kew hold all the maps from the first world war.
 
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Offline steve100

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Re: Buried at Sea Gallipolli
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 14 August 08 13:05 BST (UK) »
Hi Wilcoxon,It seems your Thomas wasn`t on the Troopship Royal Edward as this was sunk on Friday 13th August 1915,and those onboard never  landed Gallipoli.


                                 Steve
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Offline wilcoxon

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Re: Buried at Sea Gallipolli
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 14 August 08 17:22 BST (UK) »
Thomas Williams died aged 25 on 26 August 1915.
Pte 11748 2nd batt. South Wales Borderers.
I did find him on the  War Graves site, but so far that and what I have posted from the museum are all I have of his war service.
I haven`t got  as far as contacting Kew yet, and I suppose that there will have to be a search done to see if they have survived.

I was watching Francesco`s Mediterranian Voyage on BBC 2 last night, he was at the Helles Memorial, and the surrounding area, it was very interesting as I know nothing about the battle at all.
Thanks for all the help so far.
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Offline liverpool annie

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Re: Buried at Sea Gallipolli
« Reply #13 on: Friday 15 August 08 00:42 BST (UK) »


Heres a bit of background wilcoxon ! ....

World War 1 - 2nd Battalion South Wales Borderers

Summary of Service

4th August 1914: Tientsin, Northern China. 23rd September 1914: Landed at Lao Shan Bay for operations in conjunction with Japanese forces against German garrison at Tsingtao. 4th December 1914: Embarked at Hong Kong for Plymouth. 12th January 1915: Stationed at Rugby as part of 87th Brigade, 29th Division. 17th March 1915: Embarked at Avonmouth for Egypt. 29th March 1915: Arrived at Alexandria. 11th April 1915: Mudros. 25th April 1915: Landed at Gallipoli. 11th January 1916: Evacuated and arrived at Egypt. 15th March 1916: Arrived at Marseilles as part of 29th Division. 11th November 1918: Part of 87th Brigade, 29th Division near Lessines, Belgium. 13th December 1918: Cologne, Germany. 4th April 1919: A cadre strength, embarked Dunkirk for Brecon arriving on 5th April.

TSINGTAO

In August 1914, the 2nd Battalion had nearly completed two years of its tour at Tientsin, in Northern China. In early August the Japanese entered the war and sent a division to capture the German port of Tsingtao. The Twenty-Fourth and half the 36th Sikhs were sent from Tientsin in September to represent the Allies and take part in the capture of the place. After much hard digging in heavy rain and in great discomfort Tsingtao fell on 7th November, at a cost to the battalion of 14 men killed or died of wounds or disease and 2 officers and 34 men wounded. 'Tsingtao' is a battle honour held by no other British Regiment.

GALLIPOLI

On 12th January 1915, the battalion on its return from China landed at Devonport, and, with the 1st King's Own Scottish Borderers, 1st Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers and 1st Border Regiment joined the 87th Brigade of the 29th Division billetted at Coventry, Rugby and neighbouring towns. This, the last of the foreign service Regular Divisions, after a memorable inspection by His Majesty the King, left England in March for the attack on the Gallipoli Peninsula. The object of the expedition was to open a passage for ships through the Straits of Helles into the Sea of Marmora and on through the Bosphorus at Constantinople into the Black Sea, thus enabling Russia to export the grain needed by the Allies and to import munitions of war.

On 25th April 1915, the 29th Division made its historic 'Landing at Helles', a feat of arms which could have been achieved by no soldiers in the world but seasoned British infantry. They landed in broad daylight on open beaches defended by barbed wire covered at close range by rifles and machine guns. The battalion landed three Companies at S Beach on the shores of Morto Bay just inside the Straits at the comparatively light cost of 2 officers and 18 men killed and drowned and 2 officers and 40 men wounded. A Company was detached to land with the KOSB and Marines at Y Beach on the Mediterranean shore. This attack though successful was unsupported and had to withdraw, A Company making a most gallant counter attack with the bayonet to cover the retirement. It had heavy fighting, losing the Company Commander and 26 men killed and missing, and an officer and 42 men wounded.
The Battalion served throughout the rest of the Gallipoli campaign. In the efforts to advance from Cape Helles in May and June it fought with great determination and stubbornness. In August it moved round with the rest of the 29th Division to Suvla Bay, where a new landing by five fresh divisions from England had been brought to a standstill. In a final effort here the 29th put in a most gallant though unsuccessful attack on Scimitar Hill, in which the battalion suffered nearly 300 casualties. Brought back to Helles in October, the battalion took part in the final evacuation of the Peninsula on 8th January 1916, and was sent to Egypt.


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Offline liverpool annie

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Re: Buried at Sea Gallipolli
« Reply #14 on: Friday 15 August 08 00:47 BST (UK) »


I don't have A******* I'm afraid .... but if you don't already have it .... heres his medal card at TNA

Medal card of Williams, Thomas
South Wales Borderers
11748
Private
Date
1914-1920

http://www.rootschat.com/links/042t/

In Memory of
Private THOMAS WILLIAMS
11748, 2nd Bn., South Wales Borderers
who died age 25
on 26 August 1915
Son of Watkin Williams; husband of Mary M. Jones (formerly Williams), of 26, Cwm Graig, Dowlais, Glam.
Remembered with honour
HELLES MEMORIAL

http://www.cwgc.org/search/certificate.aspx?casualty=682289

The main inscription on the memorial reads

"The Helles Memorial is both the memorial to the Gallipoli Campaign and to the 20,763 men who fell in that campaign and whose graves are unknown or who were lost or buried at sea in Gallipoli waters. Inscribed on it are the names of all the ships that took part in the campaign and the titles of the army formations and units which served on the Peninsula together with the names of 18,985 sailors, soldiers and marines from the United Kingdom, 248 soldiers from Australia, and 1,530 soldiers of the Indian Army."
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Offline wilcoxon

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Re: Buried at Sea Gallipolli
« Reply #15 on: Friday 15 August 08 16:14 BST (UK) »
Thanks LAnnie,
I suppose that service records are the only way to find which troop ship he was on.
I`ve just phoned the Nat Archives at Kew, they told me that the service records have only been digitlised up to the letter H, so that seems to be a long wait for  me. They did offer a search but for £15 for the first 15 minutes plus whatever next, it is a bit pricey.
Also a bit annoying that  if you are a Humphreys  to a Zachary you will not find who you are searching for and still paying for the service from Ancestry. :(
It would seem that a search at Kew in person woulf be quite easy as I have all the details, but again it`s too far for me to visit.
 I`ve just found this, and almost wish I hadn`t, its just so horribly sad  reading what went on,
http://samilitaryhistory.org/vol064sm.html
 
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Offline liverpool annie

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Re: Buried at Sea Gallipolli
« Reply #16 on: Friday 15 August 08 16:21 BST (UK) »

Also a bit annoying that  if you are a Humphreys  to a Zachary you will not find who you are searching for and still paying for the service from Ancestry. :(


And thats only if its on there ..... there are loads missing after being bombed during the war !!  :-\ :-\ :-\

Annie  :)
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Offline manmack

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Re: Buried at Sea Gallipolli
« Reply #17 on: Monday 18 August 08 17:52 BST (UK) »
thomas would have probably died on board a hospital ship that was bound for egypt or malta.
these ships had no facilities for storing a body in the hot climate, the long trip made it necessary to bury them at sea.
those who died on the way to lemnos,would probably be buried on the island,it was only a short journey to lemnos.

mack
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