Henry SMITH and Dinah Ellen GRAY

[mongojoby]

Hi Cheryl,

What a nice surprise to stumble across this post (this is Jo, the 'fellow researcher' you mention).

I thought I would post a few points that might be relevant to help establish links:

Firstly to clarify some details surrounding Mary Ann Carter b. 1856, aunt of Clara Carter. 
This is not the same Mary Ann Carter est 1848 (nee Smith, previously Coy who is a direct ancestor of mine). 
Mary Ann Carter b. 1856 is the daughter of Thomas Carter est 1797 and his second (much younger!) wife Elizabeth Goodband (both Mary Ann and Clara can be found with Elizabeth on the 1881 census in North Kyme).  Thomas was also the grandfather of Thomas Carter est.1846, my g-g grandad, who married Mary Ann Coy (nee Smith)
This family connection to Harriet Smith's Gray family is part of the circumstanial evidence I have come across that suggests my Mary Ann Smith was Bathwell's and Charlotte's daughter.

Since we last spoke I have also visited the church at North Kyme and seen the gravestones for Henry and presumably his mother Charlotte Smith  (they are next to each other and next to numerous Gray gravestones, from Harriet and Abraham's family).  In a neighbouring plot is also the grave of Lucy Martin, sister of Thomas Carter 1846 which also points to a link to my ancestors.  On the basis of the details on Charlotte's headstone I was able to track down her death certificate, on which she is described as the widow of Bathwell Smith and the witness is named as her daughter Harriet Gray (if you are interested I would be more then happy to send you a copy).

From census returns:
Heckington, 1891; A Bartley Smith b. 1864 (Lincolnshire) is with Phoenix (who I believe is also a brother of Abraham) and Lydia Gray but with no relationship named.
Donnington, 1901; A Thomas Smith b. 1881 (lincoln) is with William (who I believe is a son of Harriet and Abrabham) and Sophia Gray named as nephew.

Thomas Smith, would actually be the cousin of William Gray, if the links are you think but I guess as he was a bit younger it may well have been a respect thing.

As my Mary Ann Smith and Thomas Carter had such a big family, I'd be grateful if you could post the names of any other mourners mentioned, so I could cross check them against all the names I have.

Hope that all makes some kind of sense, have to admit my head starts spinning whenever I look into this family!

Best wishes
Jo

[rosie99]

Hi Rosie,

Just realised on the 1881 census you sent me the three oldest boys Frederick(17) , Bertie (15)  and Christopher (6) are at one address with unknown "uncle Isaac Robinson" and the three girls, Charlotte (13), Constance,(12) Harriet(4)  and baby Thomas age 1 are with Henry and Ellen.

Just curious, do you think the boys were "sent away" to learn their trade? I mean Charlotte and Constance were inbetween Bertie and Christopher in age and yet they stayed with their parents. I know gt grandad Fred knew horses as he was eventually a stockman taking stud horses around local farms in the Gt Hale/Kyme/Heckington area.

Hi Cheryl

I wonder whether in 1881 the boys were actually nephews of Sarah Smith, perhaps she was 'living together' with Isaac Robinson.  Perhaps the boys had just been left with their aunt while their parents went to Lincoln for a visit which happened to coincide with the census, after all their youngest son was only age 1 and bn North Hyckeham.

Were you aware that you can access the 1881 census free of charge on www.familysearch.org   

Rosie

[deb usa]

Hi all

It does seem that these two families travelled with each other ... I have not found henry in 1861 but thought I would post this;

1861
Bassingham, Lincs
List of persons not in houses

Joseph GRAY mar 35 Tinman and brazier b Lincs Branston
Mary wife 34 b Skillington
Ambrose 9 b Skillington
Collin 4 b Ancaster
Frederic 3 b Billington
Aaron 1 b Carlton scrorf??
Bartholomew SMITH head mar 69 chair bottomer b Northamptonshire, grinstote??
Charlotte wife 55 b weedon Barracks
Sarah 18 unm b Lincs Scrichington
Abraham GRAY mar 26 horse dealer b Lincs south Kyme
Harriott wife 24 b Quarrington
John son 3 b Swineshead ?
Charles 1 son b Eagle

will look further

deb

[deb usa]

also in 1861 we have;

Dinah Gray unm hawker 19 b Scredington, Lincs living at the 'Jobbers Arms', 39 Castlegate st, Grantham, Lincs. The people she is lodging with seem unrelated.

At least we know she is single at this stage, which helps with trying to find her marriage cert.,

deb

[deb usa]

Still trying to find the Greys and smiths in 1841 and 1851

IGI has this:

Dinah GRAY d/o Christopher Gray and maria
12 JUN 1842   Scredington, Lincoln

Frederick GRAY s/o Christopher Gray and Maria
26 MAY 1844   New Sleaford, Lincoln

Mary Ann Gray d/o Christopher and Maria
12 APR 1837   Leasingham, Lincoln

Henry GRAY s/o Christopher and Maria
 31 MAR 1839   Metheringham, Lincoln
 
Thomas GREY s/o Christopher and Maria
APR 1846   Waddington, Lincoln

deb

[rosie99]

Bartholomew SMITH head mar 69 chair bottomer b Northamptonshire, grinstote??
Charlotte wife 55 b weedon Barracks
Sarah 18 unm b Lincs Scrichington

deb

Well done Deb, 
that seems to put Sarah that has the boys staying with her and Isaac Robinson in 1881 as a daughter of Bartholomew and Charlotte

Rosie

[Chezp]

Hi Rosie and Deb and nice to make contact with you again Jo.

Thanks ever so for all this help. I'm getting a better idea how the family is spread around now with the uncles and aunts looking after the children. And with Harriet Gray named as the daughter on Charlotte's death certificate that is that link proved and crossed off the list 

Also with Deb finding Dinah single in 1861 and gt Grandad Fred Smith being born 1862 it really cuts down the marriage date doesn't it. I have tried to find a birth certificate for Fred (and Henry) on FreeBMD as Fred's birthday was August 2nd, but haven't so far,  and tonight, with these new shorter dates for a marriage, I just tried to narrow it down and find that but it doesn't bring up anything either. I'm surprised actually. I would have thought the names would be fairly common...

There is a possible marriage for Henry Smith at Horncastle Sept 1/4 1861 but the possible brides don't match - although by coincidence one of them is a Patchett who is also in my line but as far as I know no way connected to this side.

It goes on...

Many thanks, Chezp

[deb usa]

Hi

I was just wondering if there could be a possibility that Henry Smith did marry Harriet Patchett and have Fred , as there is a gap  in ages ...fred =1862 and Barthy= 1867.

re ; Fred 1862 .... In 1881 he is 17 = b 1864 and in 1871 he is 5 =b 1866 

there are a few birth reg for these years , this is the only one for Hornacstle though;
Fred Smith Mar q 1864 Horncastle  Lincolnshire 

still looking for them in earlier censuses

deb

[mongojoby]

Hi Deb,

It is no doubt a possibility that Henry could have been married before, however I don't think the gaps are clear cut.   As well as Fred having various dates of birth on censuses Barthy appear to range from 1864 to 1871.  Also don't forget there is the brother at Fred's funeral (Mr E Smith), who does not appear with the family on the returns but must fit in somewhere.

Jo