Offer:Look-up Liverpool (Mersey) Pilots 1734/1990

[gmr]

Many Thanks BY,
I have managed to find the record of his mate certificate in 1893, so made some progress. He seems to have lived in both North Wales (Bangor/Menai Straits) and the Liverpool area. Do you know of any resources for North Wales Pilots?
Thanks agan for your lookup.
GMR

[BY]

Hi, GMR,

Merseyside Maritime Museum should be able to direct you to most maritime records in North Wales. I know that some records are kept at Bangor, at Portmadoc and at Holyhead, but regret that I don't have the contact details to hand; but I'd guess that MMM will have them.

Very best,

BY

[gmr]

Thanks BY,
I'll try the MMM
GMR

[glenburn]

Evan Richards ....was married in 1877 and his father's name was Richard Roberts - the family story is that there was confusion as their English was not great, and he changed his name... So it is possible that he was also known as Evan Roberts.

You're almost certainly looking at Welsh Patronymics here, whereby children took the father's christian name rather than his surname.

As an example of how this operated, here's a page from the Penmon Marriage Registers in Anglesey which I'm currently transcribing for a friend :-

18 November 1844
John WILLIAMS, bachelor, father William HUGHES, and
Elizabeth HUGHES, spinster, father Hugh ROGERS

So on the same lines your Evan, son of Richard ROBERTS, would be Evan RICHARDS rather than Evan ROBERTS?

There is of course an entry for an Evan RICHARDS born 1856 in Dyffryn Ardudwy, Merionethshire, on the Welsh Mariners website :-

http://www.welshmariners.org.uk/

confirming that he qualified as a mate in 1893, certificate of competency no 103581.
 

[gregnhel]

Hi there,
I'm hoping you may be able to help here.
I have been researching my family tree and recently discovered that my GGG Grandfather, a Dr Richard Sumner, played a substantial part in the rescue of the crew of pilot Boat No 1 "The Good Intent" during a storm off Formby on 28/29 Nov 1833. Thirteen members of the twenty-two man crew perished, but for his involvement in the rescue, Richard was awarded Gold and Silver medals  from the Royal Humane Society and the Royal Shipwreck Society of London.
http://www.formbycivicsociety.org.uk/learning/full_article.asp?storyid=117
http://www.mersey-gateway.org/server.php?show=ConNarrative.42&chapterId=206
http://www.old-liverpool.co.uk/Pilots.html
http://library.thehumanjourney.net/273/1/L10203_StThomasChurchFullReportF.pdf
I note on several entries on Rootsweb and the above links, that some or all of the following persons may have perished as a result of this shipwreck
Master – William Webster (plus 6 of his crew and 5 people from other Pilot boats)
William Evans
Andrew Heatley (possible, but unsure)
George Gibb (possible, but unsure)
Edmund Richardson (buried at St Thomas Church, Park Lane Liverpool)

I would be very interested to know if you have a list of the 22 members aboard Pilot Boat No 1 around this time (1833), “The Good intent” . I would also like to obtain a list of both saved / not saved - can you steer me in the right direction for this?

Sincerely, Greg Nichols Brisbane, Australia

[BY]

Hi, Greg,

JS Rees (History of the Liverpool Pilotage Service 1949 -published by Southport Guardian) tells us :-

"On Friday 29th November 1833, during a most destructive storm, No. 1 pilot boat, the Good Intent, 52 tons burthen, was wrecked off Formby.

During the height of the gale on the previous evening the pilot boat took a heavy lurch and shipped a sea, which washed her punt off the deck and thrust it into the belly of the sail, tearing a hole in the canvas. The sail thus damaged was soon blown to rags by the wind, rendering the vessel unmanageable. Several of the crew lashed themselves to the rigging, whilst others endeavoured to keep a footing on the deck. Being at the mercy of the wind and waves she was driven on the Formby Beach, when out of a crew of 22 only 9 were saved. The master, William Webster, was one of those who perished."


Sadly, no further names are given, although there might possibly be a record at Merseyside Maritime Museum.

Rees records that, following this disaster, it was proposed that a steam-driven pilot boat be introduced into the Service. A further sixty-three years were to pass before that happened in 1896.

Hope this might help.

Very best,

BY

[glenburn]

Hi Dave/BY

Tebay's 'List of Pilots 1734-1990' is of course an invaluable resource for anyone with Liverpool Pilots in their family tree, but I wonder just how thorough was his research and to what degree his findings were independently checked prior to publication?

The reason I ask is that, apart from discovering two definite errors concerning the demise of two of my EVANS relatives, I've also noticed a couple of other apparent anomolies viz :-

(i) According to http://www.old-liverpool.co.uk/Pilots.html a Hugh PEERS (who married Martha LESTER in 1787) was 1st master of No 6 FRIENDS GOODWILL in February 1808, with a Hugh PEERS junior and a Thomas LESTER included in the list of pilots.
But Tebay has only one H PEERS, licensed in 1786, died 1813 (the same year as No 6 pilot Thomas LESTER).
I can't help wondering whether Tebay's PEERS W, licensed 1814, retired 1827, is in fact Hugh's son Hugh (b1787 Liverpool) by his first wife Martha LESTER?
(The PEERS SR in Tebay's list, licensed 1827, retired 1854, is Hugh senior's son Stanley Roberts PEERS  by his second wife Elizabeth ROBERTS).

(ii) The above Martha LESTER's sister Mary (b1762 Landican) married John CHATTERTON in 1781.
Tebay has a pilot CHATTERTON T, licensed 1817, retired 1846, died 1853.
When a Thomas CHATTERTON married Christiana CHATTERTON on 13 October 1829 in Christ Church, Hunter Street, his occupation was given as pilot.
When a Thomas CHATTERTON married Elizabeth Grace HEWITT on 18 September 1833 in Liverpool St Anne Richmond his occupation was also given as pilot.
The 1841 Census has a 38 year-old master pilot Thomas CHATTERTON (born c1803) living in Wesley Street, Toxteth Park, with 33 year-old wife Christieny. By 1851 Christieny is a 43 year-old widow living in New Ferry, indicating that master-pilot Thomas (born c1803) died some time between 1841 & 1851?
The 1851 Census has a 57 year-old Thomas CHATTERTON (born c1794) living in Chadwick Place, Liverpool, with wife Elizabeth Grace, occupation superannuated pilot.
So ostensibly two pilots named Thomas CHATTERTON, but only one in Tebay's list?

I would stress that this isn't to detract from the value of Tebay in any way - it's merely a comment concerning the perceived accuracy/reliability thereof.

[BY]

Hi, GB,

I'm sure that John Tebay would have been the first to acknowledge that his List is far from complete. He was the first to undertake the mammoth task of trying to compile any List of Liverpool Pilots in a convenient and accessible form and we all owe him a very large debt. Not even JS Rees undertook that task.

The advent of the internet is a thing which was unknown at the time when Tebay was conducting his research in the late 80s and early 90s. My guess is that his research was confined to Pilot Service records.

For my own part, the List which appears in Beyond The Bar is, even today, not held on computer and I am at present undertaking the task of rewriting that List as a computerised document. I regret that I am too busy at present to undertake further research, but I certainly do welcome information regarding errors and omissions which are identified and verified.

If by chance you might have a comprehensive list of any errors/omissions which you have been able to identify in the Second Edition, then I would be most grateful if you might kindly let me know.

Very best,

BY

[gregnhel]

Thanks for your help on this BY,

I have contacted the National Museums liverpool website and lodged a Maritime Archives Enquiry