Hello from Geelong, Australia

[tropicalj]

Hello  there All

I had noted more information  from  the "Johnson Tree"  on  Ancestry  but was loathe to  put  it up  as I  was not  sure about  it all.  As  Cando says  not enough  "proof" 


Plus  the tree has  Sarah Waghorn dying in England before  Sarah Johnson  the daughter came to Australia!!  which did confuse me somewhat.  I  thought  perhaps  the gentleman still  may  have had further researching to do as there was no  death date given.   .

It is possible  that Mrs J Waghorn aged 58 might be aunt? not her mother

A little confusing at  this stage.

Also  the shipping records as Cando points out are not confirmed

"Name: S A Johnson Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858 Age: 34 Port of Departure: Clendenenville Port of Arrival: Sydney, New South Wales Voyage Arrival Date: 6 Jun 1892 Vessel Name: Elingamite Origin Location: Sweden

Name: L Johnson Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864 Age: 28 Port of Departure: Kaupo Port of Arrival: Sydney, New South Wales Voyage Arrival Date: 14 Mar 1892 Vessel Name: W F Witzemann Origin Location: Sweden "

No  mention of any  records for John Leander Johnson's arrival.

I  am inclinded to  think  Carol's finding of  the family  is  the correct one.

Plus no  disrespect but we all  know  that  you  cannot take other folks "trees"  as  gospel.

kind thoughts Jenn

[tropicalj]

Carol 8353

Is  it possible  that  the record for Mrs. J. Waghorne could be Mrs S. Waghorne?

There is a death in  NSW

4610/1896  WAGHORN  SARAH  father WILLIAM  mother SARAH  district
WICKHAM 

Now Leander and Sarah An  had two  children 1895c reg district Wickham.

Jenn

[tropicalj]

The  record for  their arrival  also  shows up on  ProVic
(where it does show Mrs. S. Waghorne
Family Name First Name Age Month Year Ship           Port Fiche Page
WAGHORNE S MRS           58  OCT 1891 PORT ALBERT B     550 001
JOHNSON A MRS               33  OCT 1891 PORT ALBERT B     550 001
JOHNSON EDWARD A         1   OCT 1891 PORT ALBERT B     550 001
JOHNSON LEANDER J         3   OCT 1891 PORT ALBERT B     550 001


Jenn

[carol8353]

Have just taken another look at the ships list and I suppose that it could say Mrs S Waghorn at a push 

Am sending Belinda a PM about it in a sec.

Carol

Yes Jenn which is exactly what I said to Belinda earlier today(or yesterday if you live in Oz  )

I sent her a copy of the ships list so she could decide for herself.
Now we're getting somewhere,if the list your end definitely says Mrs S Waghorn(e)

I just wish we could find some of the family on the 1891 census here.
Or the ships list of when Leander the dad left the UK...must have been before his wife and kids in 1891,but sadly our lists only start in 1890 here

Maybe one of you clever lot will find more for B tonight(today  )

Carol

[cando]

This is possibly Sarah's mother's death....father was on the 1861 census as Wm BRYNNING

4610 1896     
WAGHORN  Sarah     
Father William    Mother Sarah
District Wickham

 

There is also the following which if we didn't have the shipping record on PROV [and possible death in NSW] could be believed ie born 1827 which tallies with age on 1861 census.


Deaths Sep 1885   
Waghorn    Sarah    58    St. Saviour    1d   32

I am far from  convinced that the info on the family tree is accurate - Has the tree been assembled from data as we have found without supporting evidence eg certificates.    I have also found a L Johnson on the ship mentioned but aged 7 on PROV.  I only mentioned the shipping record cited - I also think it is Sarah with chn and mother [age is incorrect - should be 65]  What happened to Edward A?

The shipping records on Ancestry also include crew.  My grandfather was a marine engineer and in the 10 years prior to his marriage in 1910, he was involved with coastal shipping.  I have found all his 'trips' into Sydney from 1900 to 1909...age differs a couple of years at times, but the years worked and especially the names of the ships, are remembered by my 97 year old father....who has an excellent memory.  Soon as I started mentioning the ships' names, he added more.

Wonder if it would be worthwhile someone having a look at the shipping record at PROV....   Was the original manifest on findmypast clear?

Final comment   It is all too easy to make data fit one's tree!!  Certs are needed.

Cheers
Cando

[tropicalj]

Have to  agreee with  you  Cando but I  do feel  that  the 1891 arrival could be it  far too much coincidence with names etc.

Could young  Edward  A  died at sea ?  A look  at  the records at Provic would be  ideal.  It  is also  possible  if  the family  went to NZ  perhaps he stayed there?

Also  how long might the voyage still have been  back  then, would it have been 6 months?  Would that account for them not being on  the 1891 census?

Jenn

[bmissen]

Had a quick look at the family tree on ancestry.   Info detailed there includes the death of Sarah WAGHORN nee BRYNNING in 1885 and the emigration of Leander to Sydney [the voyage's origin was  Sweden] in Mar 1892 and Sarah Ann in June 1892 also from Sweden.  Also details Sarah in Sands Directory for 1912 living in Balmain.  Noted also that Leander died at sea on one record and the another mentions Fiji.

I checked the Unassisted Passenger records and it shows Leander only as L and Sarah Anne as S A, but their ages appear to be correct.  However no other proof that these records are correct.

I would be purchasing the marriage cert of Leander and Sarah in 1885 and Sarah's death cert.  I can't find a birth reg for Leander c1864 in England.

Cando

this above confirms for me that we're looking at the right people. my grandmother was adamant come hell or high water that Leander was finnish/swedish...

the next thing i suppose is to find a marriage record for leander and sarah annie... and possibly birth certificates??

[tropicalj]

the next thing i suppose is to find a marriage record for leander and sarah annie... and possibly birth certificates?? 

Carol8353 has posted the marriage details in rely no43

Jenn

[bmissen]

she did indeed.

i was going to say something stupid like.. if they came to aus through sweden, wouldn't they have been married in sweded, but i'd say the odds of two people with exactly the same names getting married are about 1 in a million.

so i'll order a copy of the marriage certificate as well and see where that can't get me