James Prentice & Elizabeth Linton

[ritekgirl]

Hi everyone.  I am searching for information on my Great Great Grandparents and their families.

James Prentice (born abt 1817 in Co. Armagh) married Elizabeth Linton (born abt 1820 in Co. Armagh) in 1849 at the Killylea Church of Ireland.  In 1850 they emigrated to Victoria Australia.

James had previously been married to Ellen Johnstone and they had three children:

• James (born 1844 in Co. Armagh)
• Isabella (born 1843 in Co. Armagh), and
• Frances Ellen (born 1845 in Co. Armagh)

James is recorded as being a widower on his marriage record.  There is no further trace of Frances Ellen and she was not listed on the passenger list of the Bussorah Merchant SS with James Jnr and Isabella so we assume she died prior to February 1850 when the ship set sail.

I've had difficulty trying to find James' family in Ireland.  A Thomas Prentice was one of the witnesses to the marriage and his father is recorded as James Prentice.

Elizabeth's father is recorded as William Linton.  In 1851 Elizabeth gave birth to my Great Grandfather Joseph Arthur Prentice.  Interestingly on both Joseph's Marriage and Death Certificates his mother is listed as "Mary Jane Linton".  I'm not sure why - perhaps that's what they called her. 

I did read another post about Linton's and it did prick my interest that the Elizabeth Linton mentioned there was a daughter of William Linton and had a sister called Mary Jane Linton...... However that Elizabeth Linton was born in 1829 which would mean that she was 20 when she married and emigrated - not 30 as shown on the passenger manifest. It is feasible. Could this all be connected somehow?  I really don't know as again the birth dates are well out.

Although I've found the odd James Prentice and William Linton that could be the parents of these two - I've found that many of the dates do not match at all, and aren't just a year or two out, more like 7-10 yrs out.  One school of thought has James born in 1824 - he would have been just 19 when becoming a father for the first time.  Again plausible, but then why list their ages as higher when emigrating and for the rest of their lives?? 

I worked out their birthdates from the their headstone at the "Ashens" Cemetery.  It reads:
In Loving Memory
James Prentice
Who died November 3, 1896
Aged 79 years
also
his beloved wife
Elizabeth Jane
Died 4th June 1901
Aged 81 years.

Could it be that Elizabeth was much younger than we thought and lied about her age - taking her true age to her grave?? James can't have cut his age by too much given that he already had 3 children to a previous marriage when he married Elizabeth.

Any thoughts or information would be greatly appreciated.  I also have access to many of the Australian BDM databases (especially Victorian & SA ones) and am more than happy to look up any requests.

Ritekgirl

[aghadowey]

Welcome to Rootschat. As you've probably already discovered, civil registration of births in Ireland started in 1864 so none of your family will have birth certificates. For pre-registration dates you need to search for church records, if they exist.
You already have quite a bit of detail thanks to information in Australia but Irih research isn't always as easy. It could just be that the church records for your ancestors in Ireland no longer exist (except for the marriage in 1849 which is after the civil registration of non-Catholic marriages).

[ritekgirl]

Hi aghadowey,

Thanks for the information. Ah yes when I started going back with the generations I originally hoped that the Prentice clan might have been English or Scottish - it certainly would have been much easier to find information. I'm going to do a bit more research on the "Assisted Immigration" rules to Victoria for the 1850's.  I am wondering they altered their ages for that to fit the rules..... and then just kept the story up.

If that is the case then I may be able to "guesstimate" their families.

Thanks again.

Ritekgirl

[L.M.P]

Hi  ritekgirl,
please contact me off Rootschat
Email address removed to prevent spam and other possible abuse. Please use the secure PM system.My Elizabeth Linton born 1829 died in Tas 1850
You have
In 1851 Elizabeth gave birth to my Great Grandfather Joseph Arthur Prentice
Can't find his birth in Vic, where was he born?
I have always been told that the Bird, Johnstone, Dunn and Linton's are cousins. We think Walsh, John, Elizabeth, Mary Jane, William's parents are William and Mary Jane Dunn but haven't proven it yet.
Walsh Linton arrived in LAUNESTON Tasmania 10 Jan 1843 2 days after his brother John was married to Eleanor Gee. His 2 sisters were on boat with him. John Linton arrived  17.11.1841 with cousin James Bird
James Bird and a cousin [William Johnston?]assigned as crew on a ship "DERWENT"
Ship" Derwent", James Bird arrived in Hobart on it in 1841 from London.
James Bird arrived with his cousin's wife [widow] Isabella Johnston and the rest of her family and then he married Isabella's sister Elizabeth Dunn.
 
looking forward in hearing from you
Lynette

[ritekgirl]

Oh it all get so confusing doesn't it.  I have replied to you via your email.

I have the passenger list from the Bussorah Merchant SS which arrived in Port Phillip on 26 June 1850.  It shows James Prentice, farm labourer (age 30),  Eliza (age 30) - wife, Isabella (age , James (age 6).  The list also records their Native place and County as "Dormise" Armagh - although I do thing this was written down incorrectly as I've not been able to find Dormise anywhere.

I was also able to find this marriage record:
Civil Marriage Record (as per Irish Family History Foundation)
Date of Marriage   06/06/1849
Parish/District   Killylea CI
County      Co. Armagh
                  HUSBAND               WIFE
Name           James Prentice               Elizabeth Linton
Address           Tullycallidy                         Drumgarr
Denomination        Civil Parish/District            Civil Parish/District
Occupation        Labourer               
Age                   Full Age (over 21)            Full Age (over 21)
Status           Widower (Male)               Spinster (Previously Unmarried)
           HUSBAND'S FATHER            WIFE'S FATHER
Name           James Prentice               William Linton
Occupation   Farmer                  Farmer
           HUSBAND'S MOTHER            WIFE'S MOTHER
             Not Recorded               Not Recorded
   WITNESS 1               WITNESS 2
           Robert Speer               Thomas Prentice


James and Elizabeth are both buried at the "Ashens" cemetery (near Murtoa) and their headstone reads:

In Loving Memory
James Prentice
Who died November 3, 1896
Aged 79 years
also
his beloved wife
Elizabeth Jane
Died 4th June 1901
Aged 81 years.

Unfortunately for me I'm a bit of a stickler when it comes to research and I'm unwilling to assign parents to James (or Elizabeth) for that matter if things don't seem to be gelling correctly.  One school of thought is that James' father is actually William Prentice but that would mean James was born in 1824 - which is 7 years difference.  This begs the question of why one or both of them would have fudged their ages for the passenger list and then kept on with the ruse after wards.

I was hoping that if I could track down some more information on Elizabeth it would help me also find more about James.

One idea I had was that preference was given to assisted immigrants over a certain age and with that in mind I have contacted the Victorian Immigration Museum asking about the selection criteria for that time.  I'm just waiting to hear back from them. 

Regards

Ritekgirl

[ritekgirl]

Just as an extra note: although I certainly could not find Joseph Arthur Prentice's birth in the Victorian indexes it is listed twice in the IGI:

1) Joseph Arthur Prentice born 1851, Geelong, Victoria
2) Joseph Arthur Prentice born 6 Dec 1851, No place shown.

Ritekgirl

[marmax]

Hi everyone.  I am searching for information on my Great Great Grandparents and their families.

James Prentice (born abt 1817 in Co. Armagh) married Elizabeth Linton (born abt 1820 in Co. Armagh) in 1849 at the Killylea Church of Ireland.  In 1850 they emigrated to Victoria Australia.

James had previously been married to Ellen Johnstone and they had three children:

• James (born 1844 in Co. Armagh)
James born1829

• Isabella (born 1843 in Co. Armagh), and
• Frances Ellen (born 1845 in Co. Armagh)

James is recorded as being a widower on his marriage record.  There is no further trace of Frances Ellen and she was not listed on the passenger list of the Bussorah Merchant SS with James Jnr and Isabella so we assume she died prior to February 1850 when the ship set sail.

I've had difficulty trying to find James' family in Ireland.  A Thomas Prentice was one of the witnesses to the marriage and his father is recorded as James Prentice.

Elizabeth's father is recorded as William Linton.  In 1851 Elizabeth gave birth to my Great Grandfather Joseph Arthur Prentice.  Interestingly on both Joseph's Marriage and Death Certificates his mother is listed as "Mary Jane Linton".  I'm not sure why - perhaps that's what they called her. 

I did read another post about Linton's and it did prick my interest that the Elizabeth Linton mentioned there was a daughter of William Linton and had a sister called Mary Jane Linton...... However that Elizabeth Linton was born in 1829 which would mean that she was 20 when she married and emigrated - not 30 as shown on the passenger manifest. It is feasible. Could this all be connected somehow?  I really don't know as again the birth dates are well out.

Although I've found the odd James Prentice and William Linton that could be the parents of these two - I've found that many of the dates do not match at all, and aren't just a year or two out, more like 7-10 yrs out.  One school of thought has James born in 1824 - he would have been just 19 when becoming a father for the first time.  Again plausible, but then why list their ages as higher when emigrating and for the rest of their lives?? 

I worked out their birthdates from the their headstone at the "Ashens" Cemetery.  It reads:
In Loving Memory
James Prentice
Who died November 3, 1896
Aged 79 years
also
his beloved wife
Elizabeth Jane
Died 4th June 1901
Aged 81 years.

Could it be that Elizabeth was much younger than we thought and lied about her age - taking her true age to her grave?? James can't have cut his age by too much given that he already had 3 children to a previous marriage when he married Elizabeth.

Any thoughts or information would be greatly appreciated.  I also have access to many of the Australian BDM databases (especially Victorian & SA ones) and am more than happy to look up any requests.

Ritekgirl

I wrote our family history book 1989 The Johnstons and I came across some of the names you mention James Bird, Walsh Linton,William Johnston
who were cousins,came out to Launceston17th November 1841 to be with John and James Dunn,  I live in Tasmania,would be happy to make contact,marmax

[L.M.P]

Hi marmax
 I think Ritekgirl's James Prentice (born abt 1817 in Co. Armagh) married Elizabeth Linton are from a differant family.
My gt gt grandfather is Walsh Linton who had brother John, Walsh came out for his marriage in 1843 but missed it by a few days, his sisters are Mary jane and Elizabeth,
Elizabeth died unmarried on 2 Aug 1850 Tas.
Going by Mary Jane Johnson's Will they also had a brother William and sister Ellen that lived in Ireland.
would like more contact with you
Lynette
Linton's from Tas and  Vic

[marmax]

Hi I will get back to you, I`ll dig out all can
James Dunn was born in Kings County West of Dublin in 1777
 in1817 he had the misfortuneto break the law by carrying firearms  he was taken into custody,tried at the Middlesex Assizes near London on the 16th April 1817 was sent to a penal colony for 7 years His occupation was servant, His height was 5 feet 5 inches
had hazel eyes,brown to grey hair,fair shallow complexion.
James came out to Sydney on sailing ship" Glebe"24th March1819  James was then transferred to the" Elizabeth Henry"and arrived in Hobart in May 1819 When freed he took up land at Beadalbane near Relbia in Tasmania
( to be continued ) re his brother John and their sister Isabella Johnston) all for now    regards max

marmax